feijai

Thank you for the laugh. Oh, wait, you were serious.

I believe the higher end Mus have four latches and two safeties. At any rate, they fold rather slower than a Tikit or a Strida, and are *much* slower to to unfold. The Mu P8 (like all P8s) also has a latch for adjustable handlebars; depending on your stem height, this easily doubles your folding time. I own a P8 series: after a long amount of practice, it still takes me about 35 seconds to fold properly: the Tikit takes me no more than 6 seconds.

feijai

Spoken like someone with little Mac experience.

PCs don't just have more dissatisfied people, they have a much higher rate of dissatisfaction. Apple's customer satisfaction rate is stratospheric.

Likewise, I suspect you'll find that Dahon's satisfaction rate is rather worse than (say) Bike Friday's. Though a recent spat on Yak could suggest otherwise.

Tommy C

My Mu P8 is 2007 as well, I tried to grease the shim and honestly I have tried everything I could and just gave up, the Mu is a great bike but mine could be defective. The Dahon dealer suggested me to return the bike and get something else, the thing is that I got a great deal because it was the 2007 model and for the 2008 I will have to pay the difference. On top of that, the Mu P8 is out of stock and they won't be getting any this year... So the bike is ready to go back to the dealer, yesterday I had removed the bicycle computer, the bell and the wedge bag. Too bad I really liked this bike and the color is so sharp, it's sky blue.

Tommy C

WOW, it seems like someone made a statement here.... Have you checked if other folders have similar issues ? As far as I know some of them do.
Dahon offers great warranty compare to other brands so at the end of the day it means something.

mosquito

My folder is now ride a Swift and I compared it to a Swift. Save yourself the trouble and get a Swift.

I bought 4 Dahons because I kept selling the ones I bought, trying to find the right one. One day I saw someone riding a Xootr folder and found out it was a Swift. Since then, I've been much more enlightened about the world of folders.

I also test rode a Bike Friday which I almost purchased, lovely machine.

mulleady

I think it is a matter of opinion. I own both a Brompton and a Mu SL. Yes the Mu SL is a better ride given its weight and wheel size but there is no way the Brompton is inferior. They are 2 very different bikes with their own respective merits and I couldn't choose between them overall as they are both excellent folders. There is no way the Curve D3 is better then the Brompton sorry! Either on fold, durability or ride the Brompton comes out as a much better 16". I'm not qualified to comment on the Curve SL which is obviously Dahon's premium 16" bike until the Curl is released.

joose

Originally Posted by CrimsonEclipse 1. The handle bars ARE a problem. The need to pedal in the seat is really your first clue.
2. The seat post sliding is fine, if you buy a new part.
3. The wheels are fine, if you have them overhauled.
4. The misc parts are great, unless you need them replaced.
5. The hinges need tweaks, adjustment and parts.

These ARE problems and they need to be addressed. I'm not willing to wait until they do.
It's really too bad, I do like the ride, but the weak points ARE a deal breaker.

CE

WOW, it seems like someone made a statement here.... Have you checked if other folders have similar issues ? As far as I know some of them do.
Dahon offers great warranty compare to other brands so at the end of the day it means something.

Last edited by Tommy C; 10-04-08 at 07:31 AM.

Tommy C

While comparing bikes to bikes (or any product to similiar products) is usually a useful exercise, sometimes I feel it can 'blind' us to problems that shouldn't be there in the first place. Products have a responsiblity to be sold fit for purpose. If the Dahon's have a problem, we shouldn't think at least it is better than X products. I think we should demanding a product that works for the stated purpose.

Tommy C

Do you have any alternatives ? I mean, Brompton is quite expensive and with all the respect I just can't put Downtube and other companies with Dahon's level.

I am not saying that Dahon is perfect, My Mu p8 is giving me a hard time but even if you buy Trek touring bike or specialized mountain bike you may have problems.

mroli

and just to balance it all up - I have 5 Dahons and haven't had a significant problem with any of them.

Jerrys88

Well, I just got back from the New York City where I stopped in at NYCEWheels to check out the Dahons again, and this time the Swift as well. My partner couldn't make it, but I thought I'd go anyway just to do a preliminary check.

They didn't have the Speed 7 or 8, but I rode tested the Swift, Dahon Mu-P8, Dahon Curve SL, and just out of curiosity (out of price range), the Tikit.

I can only talk about the Swift and Mu-P8 because the Curve SL's seat was way too low for me at its highest (What was that all about? Do they make an extended one? The store owner was out and I got the impression that the employee helping me didn't necessarily have all the facts), as was the Tikit's (apparently adjustable with an allen wrench, but the employee was reluctant to adjust it for me for whatever reason).

Anyway, once again the Dahon's ride (Mu-P8) won me over instantly. The Swift felt and rode just fine, but when I got on the Mu-P8, it just felt so SMOOTH and enjoyable - a bike I felt really comfortable riding. Again, I love the range of gears on it, too.

After all the comments about somewhat tempermental hinges but reassuring comments about mid to higher range models, I took a close look at the hinges on all the models. I'm quite confused now, because it appears they use the same hinges on all the models I saw from the lower end Curve up through the Mu-SL (that really confuses me because the photos on their website show a different, vertical-looking frame hinge on the Mu-P8 and P24 - maybe they got changed somewhere along the line?) The handlebar hinges all look identical too. As far as the employee knew, they are all the same on all models.

So, other than some lingering second thoughts based on hinge/clamp design and ensuing need to keep from pulling on handlebars, I am leaning toward recommending the Mu-P8. While I use my Brompton several days a week for partial commuting, my partner will only be using his folder occasionally for pleasure riding, so I'm thinking these very likely will not be issues for him.

I do have questions, though. Someone here said they would only consider buying a bike with a steel frame, not aluminum. Both the Swift and the Mu-P8 have aluminum frames. What's the difference, and should it matter to us? Also, what's the difference between the Mu-P8 and the Speed 8?

Oh, while I was checking out the Dahons and Swift, I managed to sell a Brompton to a customer who showed up looking for a folder - didn't need best rider, just good enough for city commute without hills, but small and portable enough to cart to and stow in office. NYCEWheels - you owe me a commission!

Incidentally - on the weekends they close Central Park roads to traffic, turning them over entirely to stollers, runners, roller bladers, pedi-cabs, runners and bikers. Is there anything more fabulous than riding through Central Park? With the mix of people from all walks of life, the unbeatable New York energy, the beauty of Central Park, all kinds of music surprising you at every turn, mesmerizing disco roller-blading rink to watch, etc., etc., I just wanted to stay all day. If you live anywhere near Manhattan I highly recommend it! My Brommie performed flawlessly taking me across the GW Bridge (from NJ), then to midtown on the A train (figured out how carry it unfolded with the seat resting on my shoulder while going up and down steps) and back. Folders rock!

jur

You are quite correct most Dahons have exactly the same hinge design, so an earlier comment about higher end ones not having the hinge problems was quite wrong.

foldie

the seat clamp on the lower end models is seriously a pain in the ass..can't hold my carbon seat post properly..recently i just swapped a turtle neck clamp onto my vitesse..and solves my problem..

i use my bike for leisure riding and also touring..most of the time i ride with road bikes and hybrids..i'm very happy with my bike..although the sram dual-drive give me problem occasionally..

my modded vitesse:

GTALuigi

the higher end Dahons have different hinges than the rest of the other models.
it works better, quicker, an intuitive.

the lower models has some really weird and slow hinges, not easy to use

it's pretty much the same story with the other parts

jagatron

@B: (from bottom of the page to which you've linked) "The warranty on the frame, handlepost, and fork may be upgraded to a lifetime warranty if the original owner fills out the online registration. The warranty is activated when the bicycle is tuned and adjusted by a professional mechanic before the owner’s first ride."

For me, all of these folding bikes are going to have issues. I have several of several different mfctrs, like many here. The warranty is important to me knowing that there will be some recourse when this happens. Also likelihood that company will be around in 5 years. Resell value is important as well. A few of the bikes I've bought have appreciated or lost almost no money.

coloneltigh

If I remember correctly, the statement made about aluminum vs. steel was in reference to the Dahon slipping seatpost problem. The poster contended that steel was better because the seatpost doesn't slip on the poster's Brompton (which is steel). There was no basis in fact provided.

Generally, steel offers a "softer" ride than aluminum which is stiffer than steel but the trade off is a harsher ride b/c aluminum is less flexible than steel. I own bikes made of steel, aluminum and carbon fiber. There are differences but for a folder, I didn't consider the material. I looked at the fold and the component spec. Though many Dahon's like my Curve D3 are spec'd with Big Apples which are plenty plush and pretty negates any harshness attributable to the aluminum frame.

folder fanatic

I believe I am that "someone." My reasons or needs for a bike might be somewhat different from yours, so I am not the final answer to the steel vs. aluminum dilemma. I buy bikes based on longevity-or length of time I actually own/use the bike, rather than lightness or intense interest on features each model provides. Steel frames are a proven metal for long term use under somewhat harsh conditions at times. I gave away a steel frame bike from the 1960s recently. I never seen a aluminum frame one from that period-or dated a few years later. Granted that aluminum processing has improved by leaps and bounds. But steel is still a more proven one. So I choose steel whenever I can. Plus I can "Cold Set" the frame when necessary-which is something you cannot do with aluminum-for now or in the future upgrades or parts replacement. For more information on this topic:

https://www.brompton.co.uk/uploads/ow...l_june2007.pdf On Page 27-Aluminum Components section

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

From Brompton Bicycle Official Website FAQs page:

https://www.brompton.co.uk/content.asp?p=14&l=1

Why do your bikes have a steel frame?

Steel is actually coming back into favour with many quality bicycle manufacturers; for all the perceived advantages of other materials, steel continues to offer an often-unbeatable combination of rigidity, strength, versatility and longevity.

Carbon fibre and other composite materials have a role to play in creating top-end racing bikes, but such materials lack the robustness to withstand the rigours of Brompton daily use. While cutting the weight of our bikes down is important to us, it can not come at the expense of durability.

Many manufacturers use aluminium in their frames but we currently do not. While it is lighter than steel, aluminium is also much less stiff and the frame of an aluminium Brompton would have to be considerably thicker than our current steel frame - the weight saving at present would be marginal and the folded package bigger than our current configuration.

I look for quality and potential long term life of a given product (in this case bikes) over frivolous and short term usage. I look for dependable service rather than recreation since I could be (and has) used bikes in the very early morning for emergency rides. I depend on bikes to get around in a hostile area. While I know nothing is 100%, I have never been let down by a good steel frame bike. And in the world of folding bicycles, Dahons and Bromptons never let me down. And I still have a wonderful comfortable ride whenever I take one of them out (I own both brands).

See my links to my photos etc. below:

makingmark

Couple thoughts:

Steel vs Aluminium - not important as a criteria for choosing a bike, unless you can get the exact same bike (e.g. the Swift) in two different frame materials. I'm not saying they're exactly the same, but I don't believe that one is all-around better than the other. What I do believe is that bike manufacturers will tout whatever it is they use to influence you to purchase their bike. I've owned both. Different bikes feel different. To try to attribute it to material, seems to me to ignore the many other design aspects contributing to the ride, e.g. wheels, frame geometry, tires...

More from the master, R.I.P.: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

Seat post slipping - I had this problem on my Brompton for a while, and it went away after a couple weeks. I believe the best solution is "wait" to see if it gets better. I know no one ever likes that answer for any problem (I don't) but the explanation I've heard, that makes sense to me, is that it takes time for the plastic part inside seatpost tubes to grip the tube properly.

jur

Re seat post slipping: With an aluminium frame, the metal being soft "rubs off" easily and provides for a certain amount of "lubrication", or at least smoothing out any microscopic bumpiness which might otherwise have provided extra friction. So the seatpost ends up getting more slippery all the time as raw aliminium rubs off on the seatpost. Cleaning the aluminium seatpost very thoroughly to get rid of any rubbed off aluminium from the frame, and then claming the clean post securely should cure the problem, but friction grease will definitely cure it.

This effect was very evident on my Swift with carbon-fibre seatpost: It would slip and silvery aluminium metal would stick to the seatpost. This felt very smooth and slippery to the touch. Friction grease solved the problem.

Steel doesn't have this problem.