Yup, I've used the Saint RD on my Touring Birdy Asian model. It's just a regular Shimano RD that can be mounted to the Birdy without any problem. What you need to consider is its capacity. It only accommodates 28T differences. The Saint and Zee RD were built for free-ride/downhill bikes. These bikes don't need frequent shifting like other types of bikes. The shifting on lower sprockets can be slower due to its slightly lower tension with short cage length. It is just how the design is.

I did a test with a hacked XT M786 and till today I'm using this test setup. Both M786 and Zee/Saint cages share the same connection mechanism. I put the cage from Saint RD to the M786 RD. I still got the slow shifting problem at 11/13T. Real-life usage isn't that much of a problem. I just have to wait for like 1 to 2s and it will still shift down to 11T.

I won't suggest you to use this with a double chainring setup due to its limited capacity at 28T. The RD was built to use a max of 11-36T cassette.

Another problem with using a MTB RD is that, folded width becomes wider due to the fact that the corner edge of the front fork (where the skewer is located) will be blocked by any Shimano RD with Shadow+ design. The front fork can't really be tugged into under the rear side of the RD like other non-shadow RDs.

(This Asian version Touring Birdy 3 came with a SRAM DD3 IGH. The cylindrical bolt is a custom-made part by Pacific Cycles to replace the original DD3 click-box. The newer version of the bike now comes with Sturmey Archer CS-RK3 IGH. Serving the same purpose of a hybrid 3x8s to 3x10s setup.)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...36890849c6.jpg
(Left) Saint, (Mid) Hacked M786, (Right) Folding problem.

Never noticed and experienced this slow shifting on the smaller cogs with the Zee RD in the six years I've been using it. Shifting does most definitely not take place on the order of one or two seconds. I would check your chain length and RD tension if you are experiencing shifting so glacially slow. Saint and Zee would have been laughed out of existence if this were true. No mountain cyclist would put up with that. Definitely not normal or standard with Zee.

A good catch on the chain length. The chain has been used for nearly 2000KM. Let me try replacing it and let you guys know.

Thanks for the tip regarding fold and detailed reply BabyCowHK
I didn’t consider that SAINT may make fold wider as front fork screwer screw will not go under it. Birdy’s fold is not entirely small so I’ll need to look into it.

My rear cassette is 11-32 so I assume it’s within range of SAINt/ZEE.

Regarding FD upgrade, my mechanic has a bicycle shop with lot’s of bikes and also is Shimano service center/seller. So he can test any configurations with any setup. I’m not going for 36 small chainring and will be using that what you also recommend 53/39. My mechanic suggested to replace chainring cranks and hub entirely. He says he will make sure chain line is fine. Do you think it will make sense or I better upgrade only Chainrings and leave cranks/hub as is?

Will Saint RD (or ZEE) work with 10s Ultegra shifter that I have installed?

​​​​​No.

Sorry I made a mistake of the total capacity of 28T on Saint/Zee Rd. It should be "25T".

Like I mentioned in the previous reply. Don't use Saint/Zee with a double chainring setup. The total capacity of 35T is too much for the super short RD cage to handle.

Front diff 53-39T=14. Rear diff 32-11T=21T. Total diff 14+21T=35T.

Consider going with R7000/R8000 short cage RD for 35T diff.

I have an Ultegra RD-R8000-GS medium cage capacity max 39t, rear max cog 34t (with 9-34t cassette) on my Birdy Touring and its OK, to too close to the ground, not closer to the ground than original RD-T610-SGS.

Does rear suspension block gets deformed in time and require replacement?

What I observed is that at the beginning, it become slightly smaller and then length stabilize.

I have R&M Birdy Touring with factory hollow crankset. Do you think it will make sense to add only BCD130 53/39 chainrings or replace whole front drivetrain including crankset for Shimano 53/39?

Shimano RD-R8000-SS short cage is limited to 30t for the cassette, it doesn't accept a 32t or 34t biggest cog while RD-R8000-GS goes up to 34t.

As said, a Shimano 53-39 crankset is a road crankset with a narrower chainline than the Birdy original crankset and might not work with a front derailleur (same as the Dura-Ace 7800 of 50PlusCycling which doesn't work with a front derailleur). So, again, I advise to at least first try to mount a BCD130 53-39 on the original crankset.

Do you mean FD will not work because Shimano crankset with double chainring will be too close to the frame? Can’t the crankset be moved out with spacers to widen the chain line for FD to be used? I assume it should work somehow as there are factory equipped Birdys with front derailleurs.

Regarding 53/39 BCD130 do you think this chainrings set can be mounted on stock spider and allow using front derailleur?

Yes, it will probably be too close to the frame.

No, you cannot add spacers because the axle of the crankset won't be long enough. This relatively narrow chainline is a standard for road bikes.

The chainline isn't defined by the chainrings but by the crankset, so, yes with the original crankset, it should work with these Litepro chainrings. Personally, I do not like Litepro cheap components, I would choose Stronglite but they are more expensive.

To mount two chanrings, you will also need longer chainring bolts since the one on the Birdy are mrant for a single chainring.

Why not use MTB axle instead if it’s longer? Found answer myself - these chainrings are not available for MTB.

Strongline sets you’ve posted link to are not available on stock. What’s wrong with Litepro chainrings? Besides that’s it’s cheap.

MTB crankset for the same BSA 68mm like on the Birdy have a wider chainline due to the shape of their spider. There is no need of a longer axle.

If you begin to add spacers and use a crankset for a wider BSA bottom bracket box (like 73mm) you don't know what chainline you will actually get and if it will fit for the front derailleur.

About the Litepro chainrings, some people mounted them on the Brompton and had problems with the teeth shape.

Thanks. Could you advise which other brands for chainrings I can consider as the one you’ve suggested is out of stock. I assume they should be compatible with Shimano chain?

Which bottom bracket do you have on your Birdy Ti? Since you have Shimano 105 chainrings and FD I assume same bottom bracket should work for me too as Shimano 195 are also available in 53/39.

What is done on the Ti Birdy doesn't give any idea about what can be done on a Birdy III since the frame is totally different with different dimensionning, its not a titanium clone of the Birdy III frame.

The Ti Birdy has a FSA SL-K Light carbon crankset with the proprietary FSA chainrings and the frame has a FD mounting bracket soldered on the frame adapted to the chainline obtained with this crankset (which is a road narrow chainline crankset like a Dura-Ace, Ultergra, 105...), not a FD mounting clamp.

Ridea also have double chainrings for Birdy Lami·Flow R5-ST which are available in BCD130 and round shape as 53/39 and 56/44 which I can mount on my stock spider on R&M Birdy Touring.

Is there any risk that if I buy BCD130 double chainring 53/39 that it will rub or front derailleur will not work? Or is there a risk that I may have issues with shifting in future? Just to remind that I have 10s 11-32 Shimano cassette.

Such chainrings are not available locally, so I can’t try them. And ordering good quality ones abroad will cost good amount of money.

I suppose 56/44 will not be a good idea?

Does it mean my R&M Birdy Touring can take 56/44 on stock spider and shift normally and not rub anywhere?

FWIW, I've used a Litepro chainring ("plain" 1x specific with integrated chain guard, one piece) for about 3500 km, no problems yet.
(Multispeed rings and narrow-wide are more complicated to make so if there are quality differences that may be more apparent for them.)

Yes Ridea will also fit but usually Ridea components are difficult to find and expensive.

56-44 is out of specification of most front derailleur but should work, its often used by pro cyclist who find that 52 or 53 is too short. I had 58-44 on my Moulton with a Campagnolo Super Record FD and it worked (this chainring set is specially made for Moulton)

The limitation factor for the big chainring on the Birdy is the chain tensionner pin, on the picture you can see that 56t is still OK.

If you increase the chainring size, you will need a new longer chain.

The Red-black KMC DLC chain above is very good but very expensive, THe KMC 11sl gold or 10sl gold Ti-N coating is less expensive and as good.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Litepro for the price. There's a lot of lower quality knockoffs and fakes so you gotta be wary of that, but otherwise the stuff is fantastic value.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f1bfd06b25.jpg
Eighth-year old Litepro chainring & crank arms that's seen action in three countries and two bicycles

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...de42ebcab5.jpg
Shimano 10-speed HG chain works like a charm

What really deserves questioning is the slavish devotion to high ticket, prestige items, not the savvy choice of good value.

Yes, I have been using this setup for a couple of years without problem. Derailleur capacity is a huge consideration. Per Shimano spec I should be using a medium GS RD. I have been using a short SS R8000 RD with this setup and I never do cross chaining in either way. The SS RD will not allow me to do cross chain anyway. This is something I had to pay close attention to.

As long as your Birdy uses standard external BB with a 2mm spacer on the drive side. It is safe to do it with double chainrings.

I was using a Chris King Headset. Last few weeks I switched back to stock Driveline BB and 53/39 setup. Still working fine without any problem. Shifting is even better and faster than the old 56/44 setup.

The combination on the size of large front chainring and largest cassette cog size is another story. We can't do 56T-34T combo. In a cross chain state the chain will rub the bottom side of the rear fork. I can't remember about 53-34T combo but 52-34T works without rubbing.

I have to agree with you on the crankset and testing setup. Just get two cheap chainrings and do a manual shift as I previously mentioned.

However, R8000-SS-RD is fully capable of using 34T cassette. The body length of the R8000 SS and GS models are the same. Its the cage length that's making SS officially unsuitable for cassettes larger than 30T. I know that a lot of people don't understand why we need to calculate the capacity on an RD. I normally won't advise people to do large cassette with a SS road RD.

in fact, some MTB cranksets that use center lock mechanism will work with Birdy with a spider adapter. A lot of my friends are using SRAM MTB, Rotor with extended axle and eeWings MTB cranksets. They simply add a spider adapter and get the chainrings of their choice.

Thanks. If I can use stock holllow crankset and spider of my Birdy for double chainring, that’s what my preference would be. Do you/your friends have any experience with Litepro 53/39 chainrings? Or any double Litepro chainrings for that matter. How’s shifting?

I agree with you, several Shimano rear derailleur accept bigger biggest cog that what Shimano specify. I know the the RD-R8000-GS medium cage that according to Shimano is limited to 34t can work with 36t.

But I have an Ultegra RD-R8000-GS medium cage on my Birdy and its not too close to the ground, its even slightly higher than the R&M factory mounted RD-T610-SGS, so I see no reason to take the risk of using a short cage instead.

For the chainrings, the difference between brands is as Glye says for more sophisticated chainrings like narrow-wide and even more for double chainrings that have grooves and pins to help and speed up the chin going from the small to the big chainring. Each brand has its own patented tricks.

Yea, we have a saying about Shimano in our local community, "Shimano is way more conservative than an old granny." My mechanic told me the GRX810 RD on my new Gravel bike can easily go up to 40T even pairing with a double chainring setup.🤣

I was worrying about the GS cage length so decided to go with the SS cage. Works ok but the limitation is so real. I had to keep monitoring the shifting. It's quite annoying TBH.