I've been thinking about what my perfect folder would be. I'm assuming that the following doesn't exist as a stock bike, so what bike would be the best to start from?

- 20" wheels
- Long enough wheelbase to avoid squirreliness. I feel much more confident on my Boardwalk than the Speed D7 and Archer, which I think have shorter wheelbases. The non-adjustable handlebars on the Speed I rode were also too high, leading to the next point:
- Handlebars at/slightly below seat. Probably flat bars.
- Small fold -- Ideally no bigger than a standard suitcase
- Quick fold -- I'll need to fold/unfold at least once daily.
- Can be wheeled around while folded
- Non-flexy ride (although I don't really need racing bike stiffness)
- Generator hub with front/rear LEDs
- Internal hub (Nexus or equivalent)
- Disc brakes (not really necessary, but we're talking about my dream folder)
- Rear rack, panniers, particularly ones that are easy to remove when folding
- Non-flashy paint job
- Durable joints/hinges/foldy bits
- Not too heavy for carrying up stairs etc (wouldn't want it heavier than my Boardwalk)

What do people think?

EDIT: Forgot to add I want full fenders, too...

Long story short:

No.

No mass-production 20" bike has the combo of all those qualities. The reality is that everything you need to do to make a folding bike more convenient is going to involve a compromise.

Closest you can get is probably a Bike Friday New World Tourist. Fully customizable, including internal hubs, bar height, bar type and paint job; packs well; long wheelbase; durable and rugged. You might be able to talk them into using disc brakes, if money is no object.

Ditto. My NWT and the wife's Crusoe come pretty close to this. (We previously owned Boardwalk D7s.) Can't wheel them around folded, though.

FYI: Disk brakes on a suitcase packed bike can get bent. Rim brakes are a lot more forgiving.

Disc brakes are, as I said, not necessary... I like them in theory, but have never had problems with rim brakes.

I was under the impression that Bike Fridays (Tikit excepted) aren't great if you need to fold frequently. Is that true for the NWT?

Our Friday's don't fold as quickly or as neatly as our Dahons did, but..........they actually transport as well or better in our applications.

Pic #1 below is shows us taking them around to local bike trails in our little, Toyota Yaris Liftback. They are slower to fold and unfold, but transport the same in the car, and fit us better and ride better.

Pic #2 shows them on the mounting board I made for our 4Runner SUV. We tow a 2,100 lb folding aframe trailer, and found mounting our full-sizes Schwinns on the rear bumper adversely skewed the trailer's weight distribution and also introduced security and deterioration issues. In 2005 we went to Boardwalk D7s - our first folders. They didn't travel as well as the Fridays because it was hard to tie them down, especially in a space efficient way. (The front wheels do have to come off, and are put in two canvas bags I fabricated(not shown).

The other issues, besides fit, were the "proprietary parts" that predominate on the Dahons, the D7s limited gearing and the support of American made products.

I am 6'3" (with a 6'6" arm span) and my wife is 5'8", and we both have significant inseam measurements. My wife also found the D7s to have too limited gearing for getting up onto the tallest of Portland's bridges during the Providence Bridge Pedal. With the Dual Drive rear hub on our Fridays, the 8-bridge, 25 mile ride was a breeze this last August. Yes, there are similar Dahons (24 speeds), but we chose the custom, American alternative.

ADD: We may soon be purchasing two more Fridays since we are going to be spending time between two residences 1,000 miles apart (tax reasons). The 2nd set will be a set of stock BFs (likely the new Pocket Companion). I know that if /when we go back to a single residence, we can easily sell the extra set of bikes for a decent price.

Thanks for the replies... haven't been able to check the forums much in the last few days. Just out of curiosity, would I have many more choices if I were not to insist on 20" wheels?

The Birdy with 18" comes very close to your criteria - actually every single criteria inclusive discs is possible except one: no standard suitcase though, but they have a proprietary one.

When you say no bigger than a standard suitcase do you mean that you want it to fit inside a standard suitcase or that the bike should be no bigger than the outside of a standard suitcase?

If the latter then I think you should be able to get a version of the Dahon Mu to meet all your requirements.

Well, I've flown with my Boardwalk before (in a soft case), so certainly nothing bigger than that. It would be great if I could get this mystery bike to fit in a standard suitcase, but I know that might be difficult.

I'd be curious to see the 18" Birdy in person. I've seen people on Birdys in Shanghai, but have no idea where they're sold.

Spent a while at the LBS today looking at bikes. They've only got Dahons, but there are some interesting China-only models that look very similar to things like the Mu (same frame design) but for less money.

This whole thing was sparked by my Boardwalk being temporarily out-of-commission: the handlebar latch won't lock, and the LBS has had to order a replacement part. Having no bike to ride to work is making me antsy! Almost bought a new one on the spot.

Oh noes, sorry about your bike! I know I felt ansty too when my bike was stolen and I couldn't ride to school.

Um. This guy is looking for, I gather, a significant upgrade from his Speed and Boardwalk experience. To enable adjustable handlebars, we're looking at the P8. Which is just is just as flexy, just as squirrely (rather little trail), has the same low-speed fold, and is just as squeaky joint-wise. And I think the Mu rolls poorly. I don't think it's a good pick.

Truth is, there's no good choice for these requirements.

- The Tikit's 16" and may be too flexy.

- The Mu's got issues listed above.

- The Birdy may be too heavy and folds too slowly.

- The Brompton's too squirrely and has almost no non-company customization options.

- The NWT folds too slowly.

If we're talking flex, weight, and customizability, I think the NWT is the best pick here.

Having one of my own, I now know that the typical off-the-shelf Birdy is in the same sort of weight ballpark as any other folder. There are people who have lightened theirs to a scrawny 8kg! That would be difficult though. 10kg ought to be straight forward.

As for folding speed, it's much like other folders as well: once you know exactly what to do, you can get it down to 15s with no trouble.

The Birdy too heavy?
Well, yes actually its indeed a bit challenged asked by the OP to wand a bike not heavier than the Bordwalk but with disc brakes and 8 instead of 1 gear. The birdy speed with disc brakes, fenders and rack will be about the same weight (about 25,3 lbs) than a Bordwalk S1 (=11,6 kg). 25,X lbs is with a derailleur so the weight will get still higher since the OP wants a IGH. But how come you say NWT is lighter? From german Bike Friday website I get ~12,8 kg (=28,2 lbs) for a NWT (with 8Spd hub, mudguards, rack). I think the Birdy will stay below that.

The Birdy too slowly? On the Eurobike I filmed a young fellow who folded it completely in 7 seconds.

Well, yes and no. At this point, I'm not sure I'm ready to drop a lot of money on a new bike, so a second, more capable Dahon might not be a bad idea for the time being.

I didn't.

The 2008 Mu P24 that I took for a ride was firm and quick. The ride was similar to the Swift's.

Regards
T

@faijai: Thats true, you didn't. Sorry for putting words in your mouth. I just thought that was implied when saying the "Birdy may be too heavy" (and, at the same time not listing this drawback for the NWT but instead mentioning that in respect to weight (and flex and customization) - you think the NWT is the best pick. I am obviously understanding it wrongly. How is it meant?

I just forgot to mention weight among my NWT downside list.

I still think the NWT matches the most items on the guy's list. Assuming money's not an object of course.

I think you may have misunderstood what I meant by "rolls".

Money's not an object at the moment because I don't plan to buy anything more than a beater bike (likely not even a folder) in the short term. But it's good to know what I would be saving my money for... helps me plan

+1. If you can find a newer one with disk brakes. May only be made in Germany. I'm not sure he wanted it to go into the suitcase (though it does that without disassembly). It just had to be that size. To roll it, you need a Brompton-style rack with wheels on it. They make those, too. You would probably need to order this Bike from Germany. But the window of the strong dollar is short!

Bike Friday doesn't fold small enough or quickly enough to meet the criteria. But, it does feel more like a full size bike when you first hop on.

Possibly. What did you mean by "rolls"?

Regards
T