Hi all,

I usually hang out in the commuter forum, but I'm looking into getting a basic folding bike. I just did my taxes and stand to get a decent refund. I figure that's its a good idea to stimulate the economy and splurge on something fun

I'm sure you'll be getting a lot of "What should I spend my refund on posts?" as will the commuter forum,but I digress.

I'm looking at Either the Dahon Speed D7 or P8. They seem to be the least expensive folders w/ a decent set of gears and components.

Mostly my draw to the D7 is the fenders and rack. Otherwise I prefer the P8, since it seems to have much better components (especially the tires and seat pump), But I will at least want to add fenders up front.

So does the P8 seem to be worth the extra money? Or would I be happy enough w/ the D7? I'd like something that would be able to handle some long-ish rides (20+ miles) occasionally after a some part-swapping and dialling in.

Also are there any other folding bikes I should be looking at? $700 is about my limit, but I would be willing to invest a bit more for something I will actually ride.

Thanks in advance for your help.

We had 2005 Boardwalk D7s for two years - 20-25 miles was about the limit on that bike for me. Just not enough gear range, and they were spaced too far apart. I have not ridden a Speed P8, but have heard lots of good comments from owners on here and the Dahon Forum.

One other factor, I am 6'3", weigh 200 lbs. and have very long arms. Since Dahon 20" folders come in one frame size, the solution for me was a custom Bike Friday NWT. However, their stock bikes come in three frame sizes (S, M, & L) [mines a bit bigger than a large]. The entrance level bike for 2009 a 24-speed touring model: https://www.bikefriday.com/2009 for $895.

Might be worth a look - and...it's made in the U.S.A. (Eugene, OR).

Bottom Line: 20-mile rides are easy on our Bike Fridays and we are in our mid-60's. It's also been easy for me to tweak the riding position and the gearing. On the other hand, the Dahons fold a bit easier and faster.

Have fun spending that refund.

One caution about the Speed D7: Every Speed model *except* The D7 has a derailleur hanger. The D7 does *Not* and does not accept any rear derailleur except the Neos and Neos 2.0.

This will potentially cause the D7 to become a headache if you intend to customize the gearing, as you're quite limited in choices. A dual drive might be an option later on for wide gearing, but its an expensive fix.

The Speed P8 can be outfitted with standard components, and there are aftermarket front derailleur hangers that will allow you full gearing range when used in tandem with a larger derailleur, making the P8 more optimal for upgrading. On that note though,

I would agree with Foldable Two. The Bike Friday is a bit of a step up in cost, but a LARGE step up in performance, ease of upgrading without worrying about proprietary parts, and has other benefits such as rock solid support and being a made in the USA product. The 2009 Pocket Companion is a very reasonably priced bicycle for what you get. The frame already comes with a spec good for some longer riding, and is very worth upgrading as you go.

If you were to get a P8 and just upgrade the derailleur, buy the adapter, a front derailleur and a crank, it seems as though it would already cost more than the BF, and the BF has a nicer frame and those parts already.

The reason to go for the Speed over the Bike Friday (other than cost) is as Foldable Two also mentioned, the fold. The Dahon would make a better bike for someone wanting to fold quite often, and is more user friendly in that regard than every Bike Friday except the Tikit (which is top notch in fold). Comparatively, the Fridays are much better choices for the occasional fold, and providing pure performance as a bicycle.

I'm a Dahon Speed D7 owner, have test rode the Bike Friday Pocket Rocket and Tikit, and am now waiting on my new BTO Pocket Llama to arrive in March. Bike Fridays are great bikes.

I do enjoy the Dahon Speed D7 and think of it as a good bike and good value, but for someone looking for an affordable, reliable folder for mixing in with other transportation methods. It isn't my first choice for a "long-ish" ride bike, though.

I am often puzzled by the limits people place on riding a folder, puzzled whether those limits are inherent to a bike or whether they are fixable.

If any bike is of limited distance value, then the question needs answering, what is the limiting factor? I am guessing it is fatigue. Fatigue brought on by incorrect fitting of the bike, or unsuitable gearing. As long as those 2 are good, and assuming the bike isn't super heavy or very inefficient, then a rider should not know the difference.

If a bike is limiting due to size/fitment, in many cases that can be fixed. Inadequate gearing is more costly to fix, or almost impossible in particular models. Weight or efficiency can be addressed within limits. A bike weighed down by heavy tyres, mudguards, racks and the like can be quickly put on a diet. Inefficiency due to bad tyres is also readily fixed. A flexy frame will also eat calories and can't be fixed.

Fitment-wise, the 2 models are identical? The D7 will have a softer heavier saddle unsuitable for longer rides; but you may not like the P8's either. Assume you have to replace whatever one you get for longer rides at least. The P8 comes with Big Apples IIRC, that's a pretty good tyre but rather heavy. The D7 come with Kenda Kwest, IMHO an unsung hero but equally heavy. Both cases will do well with Marathon Plus.

I ride a D7, haven't tried other folders, but compared to my hybrid stye big wheel bike I find it a pleasure to ride. Furthest I've ridden it is 30 miles with a coffee stop half way. Absolutely fine, and I am only a casual rider. My hands/wrists did get a bit tired, so I've since added bar ends and that makes a big difference - a change of position, and allows me to stretch out just a bit more. For ref I'm 6'2, have the seatpost up to max (could do with it just slightly higher ideally) and handlebars about level with the seat. Gear wise, its not bad, I occasionally have to get off on very steep hills, but as I say I'm not super-fit.

I plan on replacing the saddle next, which I expect will improve comfort quite a bit - the stock one is not great.

Can't advise on whether P8 is worth the extra (I only paid £200 for my D7, and the P8 was almost twice the price, so it was an easy choice) but assuming you aren't super tall/short, you could certainly go the distances you're talking about on a D7, no problem once you've made a few tweaks.

Cheers, T

it is possible to fit a normal rear derailleur on a speed d7..i've seen a shimano ultegra rear derailleur fitted on a 08 speed d7..it is fixed on the same position as the dahon neos derailleur..

The Kenda Kwest is not light for it's size but 100 grams lighter than the Big Apple which make a considerable difference to the 'snappiness' of the ride. I've been using a Maxxis Grifter 1.85 on the back which weighs a mere 370 grams if I remember rightly. It's been fine for me so far and I might get the 2.1 version for the front at some stage. I don't ride very far though so I wouldn't be suprised if flats would be prohibitive.

The fatigue I experience with my folder is simply the result of small wheels and no suspension, I think. I've managed to get the bike to fit very well with a slight stem modification but I have to work to absorb bumps.

Good point.

Quick comment on the rear rack on a D7. It is pretty low to the ground. I was reading that you can't use standard size panniers. You would have to get a higher raised rack or just use a trunk bag.

I have both bikes, but much prefer the P8. I'm a big guy too and the ride is a lot more comfortable. Both have been great bikes though.

If you get a Delta universal rack for the P8, for $20 you'll have a lighter (and higher for panniers) rack than the one that comes with the D7.

The only thing I don't like about my P8 is the color. Ultra-ultra bright red is a taste I am still trying to acquire!