Raleigh folder
 

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3813/raleigh2625.jpg
Is this a good deal for $200.00?
It doesn't say raleigh twenty on the frame. It just says raleigh folder on the chain guard.
allegedly 1972.
what do you think?

It is a Twenty even if it does not say so and from what I have seen with current prices on really nice examples, $200.00 isn't out of line.

The production date will be on the hub shell.

Yes that is a decent price and it looks to be about a 1974/1975 model. It has the pump which is quite often missing on the ones I see. I saw one for sale this weekend for a bit more in similar condition, not sure if it sold or not.


Aaron:)

It is a Twenty if it has 20" wheels ( 406 or 451 ). It is a RSW if it has 16" wheels. No, it's a Twenty. The RSW model folded closer to the seat tube if I recall. $200.00 is a good price if it is in as good a shape as it appears.

I have both, first picture is of a Compact RSW, the second of Twentys. FWIW from what I have observed the folding Twentys normally seem to have the 406 sized wheels, that is the same as most BMX bikes. The one in the picture above has the 406.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/40...500x500Q85.jpg
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/43...500x500Q85.jpg

R20s in Aussie have 451 wheels

And in NZ. even the folding ones.

looks in great condition

though the wheels dont look like Raleigh ones to me. Yes I know my 20s are uk ones on 451s. Just got a feeling about it.

Okay...must be the Twenty's headed for the US market got the 406's. AFAIK they never imported anything other than the folding Twentys to the US. None of the catalogs I have seen (and I am missing a few) show anything but the folders.

Aaron:)

I have a non- folder. Came with 451 wheels. I have seen a few non- folding Twenty's around. I am sure they imported non- folders the to the US. I thought I saw an ad for one on Sheldon's collection on the web.

I just changed a tire on an R20 with Raleigh 406 steel wheels. Those on the R20 in question look just right to me. Few, if any, other steel 406 rims are that wide. What makes them look odd is tires too small for the rims.

Buy it and upgrade the rims and tires. When you have 500 bucks in the bike start to ride it. Within 2 minutes you'll start to think about how to spend the next 500. My 20 just got a brand spankin new Brooks b66!

I seem to do this with most of my bikes...even a brand new one:o

I have a 20 that I paid ~$95usd for; currently I have around $350 on upgrades on it.:rolleyes: and I have another one that I paid ~$150usd for and have over $300 worth of parts on order.:innocent:

Aaron:)

I was looking at the pictures of your Twenty. Your handlebars seem higher than my stock. Did you replace the stem and handlebars? If so, do they still fold? Are you using stock brakes?

I would like to upgrade my 20 some. The brakes seem anemic. I need to let the stem and handlebars fold to put it in my trunck. Most the upgrades I see eliminate that possibility.

The best upgrade you can do to a Twenty is to upgrade the wheels to alloy and get rid of the anemic brakes... the steel brakes are much better than the alloy ones and can work well with better pads (Kool Stops).

There are a number of long reach BMX brakes that are far better or one can use a drop bolt so that shorter reach brakes can be used.

You can buy a decent alloy front wheel off the shelf although a modern axle is wider and some modifications to the axle or dropouts will be needed and the rear wheel will need to be rebuilt with a better alloy rim.

Just running an alloy wheel on the front makes a world of difference and greatly improves the stopping power.

There are apparently 3 different configurations of handlebars that came on the Twenty over their lives. The picture of my two shows the same stem, but different handlebars. They all slide down into the stem, I am considering putting a form of quick release on the stem bolt so the handlebars can be folded down.

The other type of Twenty bar was fixed and would only slide up and down.

The best upgrade on the brakes is to use the KoolStop Continental pads, they work great on the steel rims, and I use them on all of my Raleigh bikes and on a couple of others.

Aaron:)

Non folding 20's are far less common on this side of the pond and I believe that 451 equipped models were all domestic models with the 406 models being designated for export.

451 models are also quite uncommon here.

A friend collects 20's and has a Phillip's non folding 20 with 406 wheels and a folding 451 model he bought from abroad, another friend just picked up a 451 folder which I suspect was brought here by an individual rather than being exported for sale.

I do like the way the 451 model rides being that the 451 wheels and tires roll out much faster and ride a little better.

Aaron - The Continentals are great especially when you have tight wheel clearances as you find on 20's... The Girl has a 1974 R20 and it has a new front brake, Continental pads, and shiny new alloy wheels as well as XT levers for better reach and pull.

It is as beautiful a Twenty as I have ever found.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...4R2009new1.jpg

New brake and KS pads...

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...4R2009new5.jpg

^^^^

WOW!:thumb: That paint is in awesome shape! Of my two one is fair, the other is in decent. But if you polish the chrome parts up the chips in the paint sort of disappear:lol:

Aaron:)

Just to go off topic for a moment.

I bought a 1980 Schwinn World Sport 10 speed off ebay in horrible condition. Thinking of just using it as a beater bike to park at the train station while going to work.(where it would take more beatings!). After riding this bike for a while, I upgraded the tires and told myself that would be about it. Then I replaced the cables to make it safer but it wouldn't stop there. I changed the rear derailluer just to be able to use the rear casette since the front didn't work. I figured it needed a new saddle since the old Schwinn was hard as a rock it gave the bike a whole new life. I put new bar tape hoping to soften the handlebars and it really did the trick. I replaced the both steel wheels with aluminum ones for better stopping power and changed the pads. I wanted lower gearing and replaced the front rings for better hill climbing. Finally, I replaced the front derailluer to take advantage of the new rings and lower gears.

The only thing I haven't changed is the bottom bracket, brakes and scratched up frame. LOL

There's just something about these old bikes from the 70's and 80's that I have find very special. Yet, the overall design with geometry has been lost from todays flat bar hybrids. It's like all the knowledge collected over decades of bicycle bulidling has been lost for something more modern. A shame.

!

The paint is really quite flawless... I am guessing this bike had probably been stored for the past 35 years.

My 1973 Phillip's Twenty was used by Shell oil as a plant bike and is in much scruffier shape but that just adds to the little guy's charm.

He isn't as flexible as he used to be... lol

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...rest09new2.JPG

Sixty-fiver, Could you recommend some actual models, both brakes and Kool Stops. I could not read what you used in the photo. It looks like you used the original brake in the back with Kool Stops. What model Kool Stops?

I purchased some of the slip in type of Kool Stops KS-CRSA http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWNX:IT They actually pulled out which really dangerous. They seemed like they fit but were too long but that should not matter.

I wanted to make sure that I was going to keep the bike before I committed to replacing the spokes, rims tires and seat. I did get a longer post. I am 5'-9" and I feel like bike barely fits. So far I have purchased the Kool Stops (wrong style I guess) and a 350mm post.

I don't care about weight that much. I live a flat world. I just need to be able to fold it small enough to fit in the trunk. I like frames response and the overall quality. I don't like that it is slightly small, that Raleigh used 26 tpi, cottered cranks, and a non standard 15/16" stem to handlebar connection. For this last item if it were the standard 1" I could put on slightly taller handlebars.

I need get better brakes first. Seat and tires second. If that works out I will bite bullet and do the spokes and rims.

Thanks

I bought a Rush Pro for the green Twenty and it used Kool Stop Continentals up front and thinline Kool Stops in the rear with the stock brake.

My Phillips uses a Rush BMX brake up front with Kool Stop cartridge pads in an Avid holder.. this brake is not as stiff as the Pro model but still works rather well.

If you find some long reach Raleigh steel brakes these work really well as they are very solid and have very little flex.

You should really look at replacing the front wheel as then you may find that Kool Stops with the stock brakes makes a good combo... the rear brake will always be anemic unless you fit a drop bolt and use a much better brake.

Sixty Fiver,

With my non folding R20 I've inserted a length of tubing up into the bottom of the steerer, drilled and bolted it where the original brake bolt goes then drilled the tubing at the appropriate position to use a Shimano short reach road caliper with MTB pads, it works very well. The Aussie R20 mudguards are narrower than others so with a bit of fiddling I can use them with these brakes.

BTW, over at the singlespeed/fixed subforum I posted my 100 mile ride of my SS R20 and you mentioned you were thinking of doing a long ride on your fixed R20 or P20...how did it go?

Brilliant idea for a drop bolt !

The day of the ride was sunny and warm with 40km winds so I opted to take my geared touring bike which was most welcome on the ride back which was all done straight into the aforementioned wind.

The Twenty will see it's first century... I am presently building up a new wheelset for it as my swanky new front wheel went on my daughter's 20 inch Saffron and I have been wanting to build a new rear wheel for some time.

Thinking I may go with 451's for better performance and mebbe a new S3X hub to make it a 3 speed fixed... Sheldon Brown would have loved to see this new hub that many wanted to be named after him.

Speaking of Twenty's and longer rides. There were two of us at the 2009 ABCE in Minneapolis/St. Pauls a few weeks ago.

We did a ~40 mile ramble around the Twin Cities. One Twenty is my mildly modified one, the other was a pretty much OEM shaggy dog. It was a 1968 model and had painted fenders vs the chrome ones that they used later.

There were a couple of other Twenty's there but they weren't ridden on the longer ride. One was a coffee brown 1974 that was up for sale and the other a fixed frame "Shopper" with the 451 wheels.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb08.webshots.com/39...500x500Q85.jpg
http://inlinethumb37.webshots.com/37...500x500Q85.jpg

Thank you Mr Sixty-Fiver.

That's what I'm afraid of.
There's one in decent shape, in my local CL for $120 last week.....I passed (with a great deal of hesitation). Maybe someday.

[/B]

I have 3 R20 non folders, my wife's bike is Magenta with subtle mods like Velocity 451 rims, Stelvios and SA 8 spd hub, and Avid brake levers. My black R20 was modded with Velocity 451 wheels, but I've changed them for 406s with the SS hub. This bike is waiting for a conversion back to 451 with a Sachs 3x7 hub. The third bike is in pieces and will take the 406 rims and hopefully a 58/48 front and 7 spd rear.

IMHO, the 451 size are fast and handle better, but the 406 with Conti slicks are not far behind.

Speaking of Twenty's and longer rides, I used mine on the 3 Speed Tour of Lake Pepin this spring. For me, 50 miles followed by another 35 the next day is just as epic as back to back centuries were 30 years ago.

For better braking I replaced the rims with Rhyno Lites, added braze-ons for Shimano cantilevers to my fork and made a drop plate for a shorter reach, beefier sidepull on the rear. I have a spare fork so I can always make it original if needed.

Designed for a 451, there is an abundance of clearance under the rear fender, even with a 1.95" tire, as shown in this earlier photo.
http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/MyBikes/20/20-2.jpg

The small screw is to support the rear fender.
http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/MyBik...plate-side.jpg

As you can see, the new brake pivot bolt sits about 22mm closer to the rim than before.
http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/MyBik...late-front.jpg

Two 5mm hex bolts do double duty securing both the Pletcher and the top of the drop plate.
http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/MyBik...plate-rear.jpg