frankhinde

cool..yes we bought ours to fit in the airplane..I am even considering a mod to the baggage area to make them take up even less room...I built the airplane so one is allowed to do stuff like that...Our last trip to Port townsend Wa from Corvallis or..The airport was five miles from town.

The taxi ride to town cost more than the fuel for the entire 300 mile round trip!!! And there is no way we can get our roadbikes in the airplane.

We just had to find a better way..Tokyo's are it..just need higher gearing. All eyes wait on JCflock's conversion this Saturday...

Frank

vmaniqui

so with all these upgrades on your mind how much more do you think you will spend ? like adding the 60T chainring, changing the chain, 11T cogs or changing the whole freewheel, and so on. the reason i asked is, i used to have the citizen tokyo myself and i like it so much except for the gears. i was thinking of upgrading it but decided not to. so i ended up getting a boardwalk. as soon as i tried it, i can tell the difference in gears (speed) right away. it is a 20" wheel bike but not much difference when it is folded compare to a folded tokyo. i was lucky enough in finding a used boardwalk from CL at almost the same cost of my tokyo. check out this tricked dahon curve with 60T chainring.

JCFlack

Well I didn't consider replacing the chainring, not enough bang for the buck unless you go really big. Here's what I've spent:
7 speed Freewheel: $25.95
Shipping & Handling: $18.00 (yes, frank, I agree, pretty high for a fairly small package)
7 speed shifter: $19.99
Labor: $20.00
Grand Total: $83.94

I've actually spent more - the LBS is doing a deluxe tune up too, but that isn't really part of the upgrade.

edwong3

You're going to wind up with a pretty awesome Citizen Bike Tokyo by the time all is said and done. I can hardly wait for your impressions when you get your bike back!

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

frankhinde

I expect to just pay for the freewheel and shipping..I know a bike shop employee that owes me a favour and I'll just have him swap the cogs on the wheel..Plus I don't intend to change the shifters.

Now the 11tooth rear will give a 27% percent upgrade..A 20" wheel would give about 25%..So in theory we will have tokyos that will be slightly higher geared than a standard 20' wheeled version.

if thats not enough then I'll keep an eye out for 60T cheap chainwheels.

Frank

edwong3

Just curious...how do you intend to index a 6 speed shifter to a 7 speed freewheel?

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

frankhinde

either set the existing shifter to the top 6 gears (one can hope). Or change it to a lever friction shifter from one of my old bikes in ths shop.

My fear is the 11 tooth wil still not be high enough..In fact i know it won't..I have a 53 tooth chainwheel (also from old bike) that I will see if I can bolt it to the side of the existing chainwheel to see how much i get from it.

current Tokyo gearing is 54.9 inches, with 11 tooth rear it will be 70" and with a 53 it will be 77..I'm not sure a 60T chainwheel (87 inches) would fit because the chain looks like it will hit the frame.

Compare this to my roadbike on the middle chainwheel which I consider OK for cruising around..this has at top gear of 92 inches.

so 70 inches is still pretty low..I see that shimano now has a 9 tooth cassete but would mean rebuilding the rear wheel on a new hub and would be about 130 bucks in parts.

Frank

JCFlack

You're talking about the Capreo, which a version of the Downtube Mini used, and I believe also the Dahon Curve SL. I thought of that - but not only do you need a wheel built, but also the original wheel on the Tokyo uses a 130mm hub, and the Capreo is 135mm. Since the Tokyo has a steel frame, you might be able to open it up to accept a wider hub (I understand that you can't do that safely with an aluminum frame) but it is another consideration.

frankhinde

Yeah too much money for two bikes which will see occasional use at best.

I did pull of the the 52 tooth chainwheel from my old bike and eyed it up against the origional Tokyo chainwheel.

It will definately fit (by which I mean I can weld the 52 chainring to the 48 tooth) which will give me another 11% upgear. The chain will not hit the frame with this size gear at least.

I will put a call out to my bike shop friends to keep an eye out for parts..I have two Tokyos and want to upgrade both chainwheels cus my Wife will be mad if mine is faster than hers..

Frank

vmaniqui

as you can see it's not really easy to upgrade a tokyo. that's why i decided to drop everything with regard to citizen. i even called them and they told me that no one have ever upgraded a tokyo (with your upgrades). also dropping 130 for parts seem too high. why don't you check performancebike store. instead of upgrading your tokyo check out the dahon curve d3 @ performancebike. there's one from this forum that was able to buy one for $359.99.

edwong3

On Performance Bike's website, both the 2008, and 2009 Dahon Curve D3's are listed at $589.99. If you ask me, that's way overpriced for what you get. However which way that person got their Curve for $359.99 from Performance...that opportunity is just not there any longer.

Since the folks at Citizen Bike have not seen a Tokyo upgraded to a 11-28 7 speed drivetrain, is why I suggested that JCFlack send some photos as attachments to Citizen Bike showing his upgrades after he picks up his bike this weekend from the shop. Hopefully, this might get the "gears grinding" (pun intended) at Citizen Bike for future models.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

tedi k wardhana

the curve d3 comes with a sram t3 as standard.

but on the cheap folder that I love, I put a sram t3 coasterbrake, with a 16t cog, so it is lower geared than the standard curve.
the range on this cheapie (40 dollars!) is 35-60 gear inches.
(compare that to the citizen: if you put a 52t crank, and use the standard 14-18t freewheel, the highest gear would only be 55 gear inches)
the dropouts are old fashioned semi horizontal, so the sram t3 (40 dollars, here) fits just fine.

the metro, like a dahon prestolite, has horizontal dropouts, so a nexus3 coasterbrake fits with a "little" force...

frankhinde

Well it may sound like a lost cause but consider this..

The 11-28T upgrade should cost me around $35 for each bike (I'm upgrading two of them) and I have a 52 tooth chainwheel for free and I bet I can scrounge up another one from somewhere.

That gives me 75.6 gear inches..Ok still low geared but I still get two tiny folding bikes for less than 400 bucks.

Its really still a sweet deal..and we want it for very ocasional use as these are not our daily commuters by a long shot..just Sunday afternoon rides from whatever airport we land at to town and back.

So in our particular case I think they are worth upgrading..and if bigger chainwheels show up at some point I'll just grind off the welds and weld bigger ones on.

Thats my story

Frank

frankhinde

I hope I got the formular right but I thought gear inches= wheel size*chainwheel teeth/back cog teeth

so 16*52/14 = 59.4"...am I missing something???

Frank

tedi k wardhana

@frankhinde:
yes you are right.
I was just assuming that the citizen tokyo is not outfitted with schwalbe big apples,
maybe with slimmer tires like 16 x 1.50. (like my bikes)
and the overall diameter is actually 15 inch...

so, one more time, if my assumptions are correct:
if the dropouts are NOT vertical.
if the OLD (for originally singlespeed folders) is something like 110mm-117
if you don't want to switch to bigger chainwheel.
if you need higher gear.

then the more reasonable way to go is to install a 3 speed IGH, with 14T or 13T cog.

enough said....

edwong3

Using Sheldon Brown's online gear calculator here is what I found the possibilities are installing a 3 speed IGH, assuming that the bike still uses the stock 48 tooth chain ring, and a 13 tooth cog on the rear:

Shimano Nexus Inter 3 hub, 1rst-36.4 g.i., 2nd-49.7 g.i., and 3rd-67.6 g.i.
Sturmey Archer AT-3 hub, 1rst-37.3 g.i., 2nd-49.7 g.i., and 3rd-66.2 g.i.

This setup provides what I consider a good high gear for a 16" bike, but it loses the low gearing for climbing the really tough hills that a 28 tooth cog (23.1 g.i.) provides on the 11-28 cluster.

However, according to the calculator, the highest ratio (48x11), is still only 58.7 g.i. That is taking into consideration 16"x1.5" tires. For many, that is sufficient, but as I recall the OP is looking for much higher top end gearing.

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder

frankhinde

It would seem I have misunderstood the rim/tire size effect on the gear inches calculation..I had assumed the 16" was 16"..clearly it isn't

Oh well the Tokyo has 16*1.75 tires on it..I need to go find the formula.

Bottom line I assume that the schram t3 would give quite a bit higher gearing at somewhat more expense.

Frank

frankhinde

Whats the verdict on the upgrade?..

JCFlack

My first test ride was a very short one. The thread on the nut for my seatpost quick release was stripped. So five seconds after I sat down, the bottom of the seatpost was scraping the pavement, and my knees were hitting my chin. The real test ride is going to have to wait for a repair of the quick release. But the upgrade looks good - pictures coming soon.

frankhinde

Did the bike shop guy say it was a striaght swap?..No particular gotchas he had to work around?

I'm anxious to order my freewheels and my Wife wants results..

Cheers

Frank

JCFlack

Straight swap - though you need a freewheel removal tool and a bench vise to pull off the original gears. This can take some elbow grease too - the gear gets tighter the more torque that you've used when pedaling. This was actually one of the reasons I paid my LBS to do it - I haven't got the tools or the space for them.

vmaniqui

well said. since you mentioned that the tokyos are just for occasional use on your part, why go thru the trouble of upgrading it ?

frankhinde

Cool..I don't have the freewheel removal tool but I'm sure I can get those spun off thru a friend..Everything else I have.

As to why I want to upgrade the, the reason is, even though they are for occaional use, airports tend to be 5 miles plus from the town we want to visit and this is enough of a distance where we need a little more gearing at least..I live on a slight downgrade at the house and I can't even pedal down it..I.e I'm freewheeling.

So I don't want these to be a PITA everytime we use them, otherwise they won't fit the bill...And for $30 each for a 27% improvement that would seem to be a reasonable investment.

Frank

JCFlack

I bought a new seatpost quick release bolt, and so I was back in business. The first test ride was okay, except that when I shifted to 7th gear, it was really in 6th. 1st was 1st, 2nd was 2nd, but somewhere around 3rd or 4th it didn't actually shift. I'm a little upset with the LBS, because one of the things they were supposed to do was adjust the gears. I fiddled with the adjustment screws and got it to shift properly. The shifting is still not perfectly smooth, but it is at least as good as it was with the original gears - it never was absolutely perfect. And test ride number two was nice. The new 7th gear is indeed faster, but I still won't break any speed records. We'll see after I try a commute later in the week.

Frank - my commute is about 10 miles each way depending on route. It took me just over an hour before the switch. My hope is to make it in under an hour.

Here are some pictures as promised:

edwong3

With this swap, I figure you have gained about 12 gear inches on the top end, and still retained the really low ratio for any tough climbs. Imagine doing this same upgrade to the 20 inch models.

I hope you get the shifting sorted out. Pictures look good. Thanks for sharing!

Edward Wong III
Qile Duo 5 Speed 20" Folder