YEs but with the click box it changers quicker, more precisly, and even under full load.
The sash is disappointing in compirasion to the later hub IME.

good luck clearing that projection right by the rear axle, then.. you plan to saw it off..?

I dont have a Dahon so I don't know its function.

I assume that projection is the clip that holds the front wheel in place when folded. It is simply screwed on so can easily be removed and relocated.

Re click boxs;
Using the click box requires that a plastic trim is removed by removing a screw. The black mezzo front wheel clip needs removing. Then to secure the front wheel in folding rest front wheel bolt on rearchainstays and secure together. I use a hair bobble around the seatpost and cconnect it to the brake hoodsm really quick simple.

Re sash.
The mezzo front wheel clip must be moved to allow toggle chain clearence. Just use a mending plate to move it about 1" behind I seem to remember.


I believe photos of these in thread earlier.

Seen the photos, very useful. I think I have been betting a bit confused with the differences between the Sachs and Sram hubs.

I bought a 36 hole 349 rim from SJS Cycles. This seems like serious overkill, a 16" wheel is going to reasonably stiff due to its size but the new rim is double walled and the wheel has far more spokes than is really necessary. l have the dual drive hub laced up the new rim now and the next stage is to get it tensioned which means fixing it into the truing jig. I didn't get any axle nuts with the hub but that's not a problem, I have some in my spares box. Wrong, the dual drive hub uses a 10.5mm thread so my standard nuts don't fit. What on earth was Sram thinking of, who in the engineering world uses a 10.5mm thread. :cry:

I remember this problem now!
Have you got the click box and a cable stoPper bracket. Ebay has a selection for stermely archer. If you could let me know where and what size bracket you find works best on your build and I will get another similar one for spares. The bracket on my black bike has never needed attention. The gold cable bracket bike loosens sometimes. My black bike seems to live a charmed life!
Ie it rarely seems to throw a chain, rarely needs adjusting, the lighht batteries seem to last longer etc.
Touch wood!

I didn't think a cable stop bracket was needed with a click box as the cable outer is retained by the plastic adjuster where the cable enters the click box?
I have not yet got a click box. Based on your comments about the click box baving a small efect on the fold, I might make a something to actuate the selector pin insead and aim to get it smaller so it wont interfere with the front wheel when folded.

Good point about the click box.
Yes you don't need a cable stop. But I have still fitted one on my sram bike. From what I remember:
1) Its to act as an adjuster with a spring fitted in a join in the outter. I have brifters so I have no adjustment at lever.
2) The spring increases the cable return to get the lower gear. Which initially I struggled to get in addition to the high gears on the IHG.

Not sure if need the cable stopper but I got it to work by adding it, therefore I am leaving it alone! I will upgrade the outer at sometime.

You will need to address cable friction in mezzo's long and winding routing. I strongly recommend teflon inners. Teflon lined outers idealy also.

I have started to add washers routinely now in all my cable outer terminator now. I find that often cables has pulled through these, more frequently. So I add tiny brass spoke washers.

Weather was a bit grim today so stayed in the warm house and finished building the wheel, quite happy with it. I have bought a pair of used but in good condition Shimano shifters, a Sora rear mech that was on sale and I am waiting for a used 140 diameter brake rotor to arrive. Not yet decided if I should buy a click box of make something to actuate the selector pin that wont compromise the fold as much. Here is the wheel mounted in the frame just check it over.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=306372

FWIW seems SA 8 speed hubs are better with wee wheels than big ones,
As the gears are all overdrive but the lowest.. 1st, 8th is over 300% bigger..
19,21, 25t cogs .. with maybe a 28 to 34t chainring..

maybe 2 chainrings to really have that wee wheel spinning fast :lol:

D
I have ran this though sheldons gear calulater. Dualdrive results in same gearing as a 27 speed road racing bike up to 25 speed. Asuming 52T. Changing to 56 t gives the 26 speed. Ie its ideal and is fully compactable with sti/sram. It shifts like a dream.

Dualdrive is an ideal choice ,compaired to the incompatabiliy of sa and limited choice of shifters. May also index better due to problems with long cable lenghts on mezzo. Op made right choice imho!

I have ordered a couple of the special axle nuts. Do you bother with anti rotation washers? Looking on the net they are fairly expensive for bit bent metal and not exactly in plentiful supply.

Axle is the internal torque transfer , that is why the anti Rotation stop is required.
derailleur bikes don't have any torque transferred to the axle, Planetary internal gears do.

Parts of the internals . rotate backwards , then forwards.

1 set per hub sold, for over 100 years, is plentiful, to my thinking..



Edit; if the axle rotates, one nut will get tighter, the other one will get looser.

The hub was sold incomplete? guess that was the trade off, missing parts
as you said:
S-A axles are flattened, the anti rotation washer slips over that and adds to the
un round ness of it.

I think, its the .75 gear that gets the torque resistance ..



FWIW, Mountain drive crank has a torque stop, lever . [Schlumpf]

Brompton version its lever has a button sitting on top of the piece behind the BB shell
that the rear portion's hinge is on the back end of.. torque is CCW, pedal turns CW.

the speed drive, just, relies on the friction of the chamfered BB edges
mounting rings, being pulled into as its tightened into the frame.

Correct for every other hub sold but not the Dualdrive, axle diameter is different. Hence the need to buy axle nuts that are specific to this hub.
My main reason for raising the need for washers is surly the axle isn't going to rotate when secured in the frame with nice tight nuts.

I plead ignorence!!
I do not have them fitted on my bike. Don't think it mentions them in dualdrive manual. The axle has a cam section so it tends to lock in postion anyway. I tend to have to use grips to turn the axle off the flat spots to remove the wheel.

Thanks bhkyte. In that case I will try without them and if I get problems, fit washers.

A bit of an update. The axle nuts I ordered turned out to be out of stock. These seem to be a bit scarce or command stupid prices. Instead I bought a pack of stainless M10, 1 mm pitch nuts. Bored a couple of them out to 9.5mm and then screw cut them in the lathe to 26 tpi, worked perfectly.
The conversion is nearing completion, just need to do the cabling and the disc brake is going to have to wait. I have come to the conclusion that dual drive conversion is better done on the D9 rather than the I4. This is because the I4 requires more parts, a rear deraillier, two gear levers, potentially a larger chain ring. The I4 is fitted with a 44 tooth so may be under geared and due to the angle of the chain run the chain is likely to slap the frame at the rear. A larger chain ring should increase the angle and move the chain away from the frame. Also the derailler hanger on the I4 has a step in it to accommodate the chain tensioner but this prevents the derailer from reaching the lowest gear. I had to mill 4mm off the step to get enough derailer travel. See photo.
I am sure when its finished I will be very happy but I think a much easier and probably cheaper upgrade for the I4 is an internal gear hub with many more speeds such as an Alfine 8 or 11. I would also seriously consider a front derailier and multiple chain ring conversion on and I4.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312155http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312156http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=312157

I think you are right !
Can not understand difficulty in getting nuts, not my experiences , maybe i was lucky

Some excellent work there!

Thanks Wheelrider but its not feeling too excellent right now. I have the all the bits fitted and cabled up now. For the additional gear cable, I cut some cable guides of a scrap ally mountain bike frame (cracked and not worth repairing) and glued then onto the Mezzo frame with epoxy. Here are some photos of the cabling.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314571http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314572http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314573http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=314574

First major test ride yesterday, the new rear mech is ok but a bit sticky on the way back up to the lower gears. This could be a cable issue but all new outer (lined) and inner cables were used. I have had to set the end stop on the mech so that it will not shift to the largest sprocket, it is 32 teeth and the mech is rated at 27 teeth. The cassette is the one that came with the hub, I will get a new one when the testing has been completed.
The next major problem is with the click box, it keeps going out of adjustment. I am not sure if this a sticky cable issue or if ther is a cable pull length issue between the Shimano selector and the dual drive hub. Some weeks ago I measured the full cable pull length from one end to the other on the shifter as 21 mm and the selector pin in the hub as 11mm. I assumed that the click box would correct this mismatch but it may not so I have some measuring and investigating to do.

I also had some problems getting all the gears on the ihg. Cable stopper spring maybe fixed this. I recomend telfon linned cable for the drailyer. I also use teflon linned outers. I don't find the click box goes out of adjustment. Might be temporary problen after unfolding, or cable stick?
Add a spring from a pen?

I did some cable adjustments and after a test ride the click box seems to be working now, rear mech is still a bit sticky. Using the original I4 42 tooth chain ring, the bike is still under-geared going down hill or on the flat with a good tailwind. There is however plenty of gears for getting hill. :) I think I can live with the gear rations as they currently are but a larger chain ring will be an improvement.

hat size does the i4 chainguard go up to?
The thing I like about a 54 is that in 1st at a stand still there is no need to shift the drailler. Shifting twicw on the ihg and your off. Then fine tune shifting with the 9 speed. If I stop in 27th I just change down on the ihg and off again. Works so slickly and fast freom brifters. With the 56 its a little over gearedand I need to change on both more often. I love my close ratio cassette, so I am currently running the 54.

I am running a 11_21 casseTte, as my bike is set up as a fast road bike with kojacks,bullbars,clipin peddles, and brifters. I find gearing fine for hills.
My sash gold bike has a 11-19. 7 speed. I could do with a smaller gog or more spread.

I would like the Mezzo to be go any where bike so a wide range of gearing is what I am looking for. The chain guard on I4 is quite small so it wont take many more teeth than 42 so I will have to change that as well. The crank on my I4 is SR Suntour but most of the D9s I have seen use a Truvativ crank, don't know why they fit different cranks unless its to do with the pcd. From my measurements the I4 pcd is 130m, perhaps the 54 chainring is only available in a larger pcd, need to do more research.