Just as a side note to anyone who may own a s/s Bromie who doesnt live in UK.If you wish to change rear cog(re:gear inches),and dont want to wait for part,ive discovered that a Surly cog works,you just have to change one of the spacers to a thinner one to keep chainline good.And its much sturdier looking gear.Not sure if i should have put that here, but seems somewhat appropriate as some discussion on proprietory parts.Some stuff isnt needed from Brompton,although that would be a weak argument,as most stuff is definately proprietory.Just giving info is all.Brompton has a habit of useing extremely high gearing,i needed to get a lower gear inch, and like everyone else i wanted it now once i decided lol.

Didn't realize your Tikit had a schlumph drive which accounts for weight...

Looking at your pictures, while the Tikit is a little more messy w/ a stray pedal and cables looped around, it actually doesn't have that much larger footprint than the Brompton...

BTW, in the Brompton videos, I always see people putting on neckties and riding. I think it's kind of a joke but I suppose you should add which bike do you look best in wearing a shirt and tie!

Wow that is rather long and complicated.

I have no idea how that graph that FF posted was arrived at. I have traveled with my Birdy and it was a LOT quicker and easier to get into the suitcase than that video - remove wheels, pull handlebar out after undoing the QR, fold the bike and put into suitcase. Literally as simple as that. I would call there is a lot of bias in that chart. The Birdy with full suspension is also a lot better offroad than the BF, I would say.

Enough of the Birdy contamination, back to usual programming.

Two nits. (of course!)

I cannot see how the replacement part situation can possibly be construed in Brompton's favor. Let's put aside North America, where Brompton doesn't even have a distributor. I'm in Rome right now, and have repaired or replaced (some out of need, others for fun): the rear derailleur and gear cable, brake assembly, front gear, cranks, gear shifters, and handlebars. I was able to do so at any bike shop in the city. Heh. It occurred to me yesterday that not one of those parts was replaceable if I had a Brompton: they're all custom and the closest Brompton dealer is in freakin' Milan. I need this bike to commute every day, and can't afford to wait for shipping, much less explain to a dealer, in halting Italian, how to obtain and install the part. If I had a Brompton and needed to replace just one of those parts, I'd be seriously screwed right now.

Okay, not that screwed: my wife happens to also have one of our Dahons here too; I could use that instead in a pinch. :-)

To the contrary, I don't think this is a Brompton strong point. The Tikit's got three top tubes and can accommodate any ahead stem and a great many handlebar styles. The Bromptons I've tested (S and M type) were not only shorter in effective top tube (as I measured it) than off the shelf size-Medium *and* Large tikits, they were shorter than Dahons too (Helios, Mu, and Speed P8). YMMV.

Yep. All BFs are packable, but none are quick-packable. Still much better than packing my Helios tho.

Why should the picture emphasize the worst case? Is not the diagonal perspective more representative of how the actual bike dimensions would come into play in your average real world scenario?

"Despite giving the Tikit more advantage points, I love both bikes and admire their engineering. They're both designed well for their purposes. Which is better? Well, it depends on your intended use of the bike, doesn't it? "

Any thread abt Tikit vs Brompton will surely attract lots of discussions and opinions, attesting to the quality and sterling performance of both bikes. As an owner of both bikes, I fully agree with the above opinion. Commuting in tight places, Brompton takes the cake but in all other aspects, the tikit is superior. I took it recently to Borneo for touring and came away impressed.

http://lovethefold.blogspot.com/2009...in-borneo.html

I have a large Tikit so I'll comment on that...

LIKES

• Rollability: I like how it handles when folded. Many people have commented that they feel the Tikit is awkward to roll, but I disagree. After a week or two of regular use, it doesn't feel awkward at all. At some point, things click and you're balancing it like a pro.
• Options: I like that, for the most part, everything is easily replaced on the Tikit... and that there is an easy (although potentially expensive) option for upgrading the bike to fit ones needs. If, for example, I decide to switch to internal hub gear, I can simply send the bike back to Bike Friday and they'll handle it. Sure, it won't be cheap, but it's definitely easy... and the bike will remain under warranty.
• Folding: I love how quickly and easily the Tikit folds and unfolds. I can't count the number of times that quick folding capability came in handy during my multi-modal commute in Chicago (ride-train-ride-train-ride). I'm not an early bird so I often got to the stop right on time to catch the train.
• Utility: This is also true of the Brompton, but one other aspect I enjoy is that I could take it into any store, any train, any bus, any restaurant... and it even fit in the back of my friends Mini Cooper (barely). And I did my grocery shopping with it using the front rack and pannier.
• Green Gear: Green Gear is, of course, the company that makes Bike Friday. I list them here because their customer service is beyond excellent. It's relatively easy to interact with just about anyone in the company... and they're great about answering even the silliest questions.

DISLIKES

• Cable Routing: This might be a bit of nitpick, but I don't like the cable routing on the Tikit. It could definitely use some work in this regard... especially when the hyperfold cable cinches up on the rear derailleur cable. Annoying.
• Stem Flex: There is a wee bit of play in the handlebars no matter what you do. Eventually you do learn, as with all folders, not to manhandle them, but now that I have hills to climb... there are times when I just don't feel like being dainty. This is a problem with most folders though... not just the Tikit.
• Standing: The large Tikit, without the rear rack, does not stand on its own while folded. I have a small trick where I use one of the pedals to keep it from falling, but that doesn't always work. The only way to be sure is to lean it against something. As noted, some have reported that the rear rack resolves this.

Yeah... I would say the Brompton is very easy to pack compared to any folding bike on the market, especially if you have the Travel Case for the bike. I mean... nothing could possibly be easier than open the case putting the bike inside and then shutting the case.

But I don't think the Tikit is all that tough... the video is 5 mins long... and with practice one could probably shave that down to 3. Yes, it requires a bit more effort, but it's not like it's rocket science we're talking about... or are we? ;)

--sam

Do check out the source Website below for yourself to get the full picture.

I downloaded it from the Folding Society Website:
http://www.foldsoc.co.uk/Mike/birdy-...on-friday.html as "...an attempt to show the merits of each bicycle with in the form of a graph...." more fully discussed in the Webpage itself. Note that they are very "Brompton Bias."

Perhaps I should have included another graph from that Website, perhaps it would have added more confusion. The idea to keep in mind is-there is no "right" answer for everybody. 25-30 years ago, I would probably go for a sportier bike (like the tikit), folding or not as my bikes in those days were non folding or separating road bikes that did not go everywhere with me when I traveled except in my own private light truck. My riding style has changed over the years as well as the car ownership-or lack of, road conditions, people in my locale, personal preferences, and more simply finances. I like to use other forms of transit as I don't care to go more than 20 or so miles on any bike or bike type anymore. Do read the Webpage for yourselves and make up your own minds.

I would add "too much trouble" for me as I prefer not to fuss over a bike too much during a holiday or vacation. I have other things on my mind and other things to do on a limited time & budget. The Brompton need not be broken down or taken apart to fit inside a suitcase-with an array of tools mind you, more to remember to take with you-like the rest of the high end folders. All you have to do is to just fold & go.

You mean an allen wrench? Ooookay.

I pack a bike once every few months at most. I *ride* the bike daily. I think I'll pick ride quality over packing speed. Furthermore, what's the big deal of 30 minutes spent packing a bike when I'll spend probably ten hours going to, from, and about the airport, and flying to my destination?

Sesame I knew this thread would stir the usual Tikit fan boys into action especially Feijai lol! How are you you mad folding man lol?

As a commute and go bike for cities like London and compact folding with acceptable ride quality, the Brompton wins hands down! No thanks to the Tikit for me lol! This is a debate that has become like flogging a dead horse even when it has rotted down to the bones!

Some of you love the Tikit, some of us love the Brompton. They both have their virtues but as I've said before and I'll say again, if the Tikit is such a superior bike why doesn't it outsell the Brompton in international markets? Don't give me the lame excuse of marketing! this is a question I've raised before and it has never been specifically addressed by the Tikitites!

Dahon sells twenty times as many bikes as Brompton does per year. How can this possibly be?

Hi there Mulleady! Here you are again, stirring the pot! :D

Yeah, the Tikit fans have spoken up in defense, but where are the big Brompton supporters? I know they're out there. We need to hear more from that side! :D

The difference is simple:
The tikit uses mostly the same design solutions as a regular bike while the Brompton has specifically optimized all it's design solutions for a folding bike. If you need or think you need things like a derailleur, choice of frame length, mostly standard replacement parts, etc then a Brompton isn't going to cut it; otherwise I think the Brompton is better although truthfully I'm not entirely enamored by either bike.

Oh that's easy: because cyclists are daft and think that the purchase decisions of others prove which is a superior bike. Ironically there might actually be some sense to this logic if it weren't so prevalent in the cycling community. You are the answer to your own question. :o

buying both seems a good idea!

FF,

I assume you carry some tools with you to change a flat and such. I don't think packing/unpacking most bikes takes much more -- if any more at all -- than what one would take for normal roadside repair.

IH

I own a Tikit, and the Brompton is the only other folder that I have extensive experience with, so I feel highly qualified to weigh in on this topic.

The question is silly, or at least ill-posed. The bike that is better for me, might not be the bike that is better for you. Despite the fact that these bikes are intended for a similar application, the details of how you would use the bike, and the kinds of things that you are sensitive too about the bike could easily push you one way or the other.

Fit - I'm 6'3" (190.5 cm) the Brompton I rode had all the various extensions to support a taller person, but the fit was still sub-par. A ~30 mile day was a very long day indeed on the Brompton because the fit was so bad. But, if I were only going to ride it on a short commute, say <10 miles at a go, I might not care so much about fit. The range of frame sizes and fitting options of the Tikit allow for a good fit. A 30 mile ride on a Tikit is perfectly comfortable.

Fold - The Tikit fit is faster, but less compact, and moving the Tikit around in it's folded state is a little more unwieldy than moving the Brompton around. If I was using a folding bike in such a manner that I was constantly folding and unfolding, and schleping it around folded, I would go for the Brompton.

So, if you are lucky enough to be the right size for a Brompton, or your ride is short, and you care more about the fold than the ride you would choose a Brompton. If you want a bike that can fit you well and is a better ride as a bike, then you might choose a Tikit.

I can see how people would go either way (or both like Sesame Crunch!) depending on their circumstances.

Speedo

I guess if you are just out riding for fun or racing then you can afford to waste time on a roadside repair, but I try to avoid roadside repair at all costs: I'd rather call a cab, take the bus, or even ride home on the rims and on vacation I'd definitely just take it to the nearest bike shop.

This got me thinking: what bits on the Tikit are actually custom? The raw frame itself of course (rear triangle, aardvark, top tube, stem riser, and fork). But besides that, examining the bike, here's what I've come up with:

1. The hyperfold cable (or if you're on a model-T, the pac-man clamp).
2. The latch rings.
3. The "funnel" shaped hyperfold cable guide under the steerer tube.
4. The aardvark hinge (just a hunk of steel tubing).
5. The stem riser hinge (just a bolt I think).
6. The seatmast catch.
7. The stem catch and catch pin.

Did I miss any? The last two are immaterial bits of metal and plastic I guess.

That is a reasonable personal choice. Although it is probably more of a waste of time calling a cab/catching a bus and then taking it to the shop than simply fixing the flat or a handful or other easy repairs on the spot.

You got me. I know more about a Brompton than the tikit. The old and new Bromptons that I rode for extended periods both had extra long caliper brakes -- I remember something more than 60mm -- with that reverse cable direction. There might be alternatives out there, but the Brompton's brakes were the only one could easily predict would work. Getting another set took a long time.

I do not see why this argument is used. Most of the mainstream bike manufactures have sold a lot of poor quality bikes in greater numbers than the small specialist folding market. Sales volumes does not strongly correlate to quality. Raleigh chopper, early huffy bmx bike and so on...................

Depending on the nature of the flat, patch type, tube size, and tire/rim combination fixing a flat may be anywhere from easy to the most difficult bicycle repair task ever encountered. Hopefully we don't get a flats very often, so for whatever particular combination of patch kit, tube, tires, and rims I'm currently using it could take many years to find out whether the task will be easy or hard (not to mention the fact that the nature of the puncture could ultimately render the repair futile).

Not something I want to experiment with when I'm trying to get somewhere. Especially since even in the worst case one never has to travel more than half the total distance of the trip in order to delay the repair for a more convenient time; Although on average one shouldn't need to travel more than 1/4 of the total distance and it will probably take half that just to be completely sure you even have a flat. So let's say you're going on a 16 mile journey, if you flat on average you'll probably have to travel something like 4 miles to get to either the destination or origin, it will probably take 2 miles to be completely sure you have a flat, which leaves you stranded for only 2 miles. For those two miles IMO it makes more sense just to walk or ride on the rims; you probably won't be able to fix the flat faster especially when you consider all the things that could go wrong in attempting to do so.

Over 5-6 K miles, I'll get about two a year -- I use puncture resistant tires. I also swap tires every now and then for different rides. Even with the 20" tires -- which on average are more difficult to change than full size bikes, in my experience -- it is a little less than five minutes if you are careful and simply swap the tube.

But you are right. Every now and then there is a rim/tire combination that can be a real son of a b!tch. And if one uses really durable tires then flat tires are a teeny tiny problem even over relatively long distances. If one is simply going to take a cab (or whatever), then one also need not worry about tools and/or a pump to carry or get stolen.

Mind you, there are other simple fixes that seem to pop up every now and then that a pair of pliers and/or an allen key will correct quickly. In the end, however, there is no "right" answer since people have different aptitudes/desires to work on their bike.