quite the opposite for me on my brommie...not enough bouncy for me. and i have the regular suspension block and not the firm block suspension. how much do u weight?

I find mine to be a bit bouncy,but not real bad.Standard block.I weigh 170.

and right in the middle of these compromisers/choices is the Mezzo.

slightly bigger folded, but larger to ride than the Brompton.
More adjustable fit than the the Brompton, but not available in different frame sizes like the bike friday. or as easily customised to fit as the tikit.The Mezzo does not have extending seatpost option as standard haowever. Although it fits people up to about 6 foot 3 ish.
About the same weight as a Brompton. Heavier than the tikit
Half Folds on to rack unlike the tikit ,but is unable to hold a front QR bag like the brompton can.
Folds faster than the brompton,but slower than the tikit.
Can be wheeled easier than the tikit but not as well as the Brompton.(2rack wheels not 4)
Is faster than the brompton but slower in standard form than the tikit.
Price is about the same as a 6 speed racked brompton.
In the uk parts need to be ordered for the mezzo ,but they arrive quickly. Alot of brompton bits are held in stock by Brompton dealers. However not sure how many Bike friday dealers there are in the UK.
Mezzo can take more standard parts than a Brompton but less than a tikit. This is due to spefic stem, chain retainers.

Anyway back to the debate........................

Four. Bath, Cambridge, Edinburgh, and Tadcaster.

Great! Tadcaster is just down the road from me.

230 lbs. I'm definitely on the top end with regard to rider weight on any folding bike.

--sam

I weigh almost half that and still find the Brompton mushy in the rear (and the tikit flexy in the handlebar stem). I know everyone praises these two bikes as being the best riding bikes in their class, but I don't share the same sentiment and actually prefer the ride of the Dahon Curve to both (maybe it's cause I'm shortish?).

but compared to the Brompton S type I tried the mezzo is flexy with a fatbloke in the saddle. As for BF, dunno, but given it is available in different sizes would think it is a peach for the like of.

I don't really notice the flex unless I'm up on the pedals riding hard or going uphill. But now that I live on a hill... I notice it a lot more. It's definitely my least favorite aspect of this, or any, folding bike. My Giant Halfway was a little sturdier in the handlepost, but it still flexed. I think it's just a problem with any bike where the handlepost folds down.

I never tested the Curve... it looked to small for me when I saw it in the store. I did try the 20" Mu which I thought was a pretty good bike all around. The super fast folding is what sold me on the Tikit though... nothing I've seen compares to it. Oh... and I got mine at a great price used, that definitely helped my decision. I saved about $400 off a new, similarly equipped Tikit by going through Craigslist.

--sam

I used to notice the stem flex on the Tikit. But I lowered the handlebars for a more aero riding position and it's not as noticeable anymore. Part of it is that I've just gotten used to it.

On the Brompton M class, the riding position is pretty upright and I'm rarely riding it aggressively, so I don't notice stem flex at at all. As for "bounce", I weigh 190lbs and I don't feel much of it at all. Maybe I got a bike with a stiff elastomer already.

Some notes about stem flex in the tikit.

1. If you have a 2007 tikit with the two-cable hyperfold system, get it upgraded. It will significantly improve the flex.
   
2. If the stem seems not only flexy but actually slightly wobbly, there are two main causes of this:
   
   1. Your pac-man clamp isn't on tight enough. You can fix this by tightening the hyperfold cable. Be careful not to tighten too much: you'll put stress on the headset if the headset is loose. You'll also put stress on the hyperfold cable guide (underneath the fork), and it'll eventually start resisting rotation. Note that Bike Friday has guidelines for maximal tension (I know, they talked to me about it. :-) Which brings up...
      
   2. Your headset is loose, which creates a similar effect. Make sure your headset is tightened down (the two screws underneath and the screw above).
3. Stem flex in medium and small tikits is worse than in large tikits because the stem riser (the silver part) is made of 1/3 thinner tubing in the medium and smalls. Ask Bike Friday for a size-large riser cut to a size-Medium or size-Small height. This has a *very* significant impact on the stem flex.
   
4. A shorter stem will flex quite a bit less. I know BF is assuming size-Mediums and size-Smalls are ridden by smaller people, hence shorter stems and need for thinner tubing. But it's a bad assumption IMHO.

In truth, I don't even notice. But there's no doubt that the Brompton flexes far less (because its stem doesn't telescope) and the Dahons flex about 2/3 of the tikit with the same force (because they have a more solid -- but less fun -- stem hinge).

Flex in the seatpost= yes. Flex in the frame ,handlebar stem or frame= no. Sorry I have had one of each of these running simultaneously. Flex in the Mezzo anywhere in the frame or stem is greatly reduced compared to a Brompton S Type. There can be a little "slack" in the folding stem if the pivot tightness is not adjusted correctly on the mezzo.

A Brompton rider rode my dahon Curve the other day and asked if it was suppose to flex as much at the stem! He initially thought there was a problem with headset play.

Neither Dahon curves or Bromptoms are very rigid in the stem aspect. However both improve with straight bars in a low position. I have cut the stem down slightly on my Curve.

I wonder how BF and Brompton riders that have fitted drops/bullbars feel about the affect on stem flex ? My bullbared mezzo seems fine, abit of flex, but OK.

A tricky aspect of the discussion is, "what does 'standard' mean?" Clearly, we all understand what the word means, but where is this theoretical line when there are varying degrees of weirdness.

I think it is safe to say that most folder frame parts or things with the folding mechanism are nonstandard. Whether weirdo Brompton frame/folding parts are more standard than weirdo Bike Friday frame/folding parts is not a particularly interesting question, IMO. Although how robust those parts are, the quality of customer support, and the future viability of the companies is an important question in this context.

The tandem market supports long square taper axle BBs. Old bikes seem to use long axle BBs too. Although the old bikes tend to have cup and cone BBs instead of the more modern disposable BBs. We have a few shops here that service both markets so consequently, I could get a 120+ mm Shimano BB today. Although I would spend some time on the phone doing so and this might not be the case for many people.

I don't think that I could find a 74 mm front hub today. But there are a few shops carrying folding bikes in the area. So perhaps it is simply the case that I have not looked for a 74 mm front hub that creates a bias. However, I am confident that I can find a 100 mm front hub. I do recall that some high end manufacturers are making hubs with the reduced width. Just from my fuzzy memory, Hope, Phil Wood and American Classic come to mind. And SON and Dahon makes a hub generator in the narrow width.

I forgot about the chainring. But a replacement crank and BB would not be hard to get. So perhaps the chainring/crank belongs in the same bin as the front hub as something nonstandard but pretty far from a deal-breaker.

I recall seeing 31.8 seatpost here and there. I still think that it is not the diameter that makes it nonstandard but the length. Nevertheless, I think we agree that it is nonstandard.

Clearly the brakes have always annoyed me. I could never find an adequate reason for sticking with looooooong caliper brakes other than to guarantee themselves a small revenue stream with aftermarket components.

The rear dropout spacing -- I should have mentioned this, but we have talked about it so much that I just don't bring it up anymore -- annoys the hell out of me to given that the extra width that you gain by using a standard OLD is approximately half the increase in OLD. I can't remember whether the OLD is actually 115 instead of 120, but either way we are talking about an extra cm in width to accomodate widely available rear hubs.

Brake: There are plenty of standard reach brakes nowadays. Tektro and Shimano both have them, although it may still be an issue since the mounting and clamping points for the Brompton are reversed.

Rear wheel: It's actually 110 mm. But yes, that's a bugger if you want a Chris King replacement.

Seatpost diameter: There are 31.8 mm seatposts around. Thomson makes one. But good luck finding such a long one! :)

Saddle clamp: The Pentaclip is actually a very fancy aluminum version of the steel saddle clamp that we have all along for as long as I can remember; I had one on my BMX bike in the 80's. They're $5 at your LBS, more typically used on older or cheaper bikes.

Chain tensioner: Yup. And there's no rear derailleur hanger to use an aftermarket one either.

Chainring BCD: The stock Brompton crank has a non-detachable chainring. BCD is really N/A.

BB size: The Brompton BB shell is standard 68mm English. It'll fit any standard English BB cup. And of course we all know that the spindle length is dependent on the crank used...

Other custom parts: Fender, all the miscellaneous small frame parts, rack (front and rear) and those short spokes.

Other parts replaceable by standard parts: pedals (crank dependent), headset (1.125" threaded), chain, handlebar (standard 25.4 mm), BB, crank, cables, brake levers, grips and saddles.

But for me, these discussions are moot. Despite the existence of many custom parts on a Brompton, it is relatively easy to replace broken ones simply because the parts are readily available. I'm lucky in that I live close to C.M.Wasson Co., one of the US west coast Brompton dealers. But even if I didn't, I can always get parts within a week if I order from the UK.

Regardless, Bromptons are quite reliable; I commuted on mine almost every workday for the past year and didn't break anything. Bromptons are also fairly optimized from the factory if you choose the appropriate configuration from the wide range offered; since new, I only had to change out the saddle for a Brooks (yes, I got the Pentaclip), the rear sprocket to a 14T from the stock 13T because of a $#%& 12%+ hill on my route to work, the brake pads to Koolstop salmons (OMG, standard Shimano pad refills! :)), and the elastomer suspension bung to a higher durometer version (because the stock one appears to be for a 100-pounder). It's pretty good for its intended use as delivered.

Yes, tinkers will be more challenged if they want something different or more suited to their taste. But I'm guessing that for most people, a Brompton is a tool more than an interest/toy.

I thought that the Brompton brakes were more than a 57 mm reach. Something in the low-60s from a few caliper measurements. But perhaps this has changed. I recall the Kogswell blog celebrating Tektro making quality brakes for a 57-74 mm reach -- this is a guess ... I simply recall it being considerably longer than standard reach brakes -- but are they easy to find?

By quality brakes, I understood it to mean dual pivot caliper brakes. There are BMX caliper brakes that are really long.

Dimensions are given in 3 coord system, and suitcases general comply with this. Many people are interested in putting a bicycle in a suitcase, or in a tight luggage compartment on a train. That's when real dimensions stack up, and a picture taken from above will demonstrate that there is a significant difference in this dimension, otherwise the photo gives the impression they are more or less equal. As the Brompton is the smallest folded package bicycle, it's important to show this attribute, because as even that size pushes the limit for 62" luggage, one cannot get larger without needing disassembly.

There are some speciality parts for Brompton and for Tikit that only their respective manufacturers can provide (ie, bushings, Brompton seatpost inner-plastic-collar, Brompton hinge clasp, Tikit pacman, etc). These will need servicing. Where can one buy those parts? For the Brompton, there are many many sites and shops that have these available. True for BF? Granted, BF may mitigate this by shipping directly, or maybe their new dealership network is working well for this. But for those outside of North America, how much is that gonna cost sending your ride to Oregon USA?

ps - those speciality parts for brompton are _not_: rear / front hub (other sources exist), crank, chainring, seat post, headset (I think), shifter, handlebars, etc. They are more frame/folding mechanism related. Remind everyone the normal first normal wear and tear time for Bromptons might be in 3 years or so in the average case - that's longer than the present life of the Tikit. Most people acknowledge the complexity of the TIkit and there have already been several modifications to certain aspects of this complexity.

You don't have to send your ride to Bike Friday for a basic repair. Their dealer network can handle it. Not sure where you get that idea from. Maybe you have this confused with warranty repair?

What is Brompton warranty repair like? Does one go to a dealer or send back to the company? Just wondering as I have no idea.

As for parts availability... Yes, there are several UK-based sites that have parts for Bromptons. If you're in the UK or Europe, it should be a breeze. Not sure what the situation is here in the US, but my guess is that one would have to order from one of those UK sites for many parts unless one happened to live near a well-stocked Brompton dealer (not likely in the US).

Whenever I've needed a part... even a nut/bolt, I've just asked Bike Friday for it... and they've shipped it to me without much fuss. I don't know how well that would work outside of the US. I know we've seen stories of Bike Friday shipping parts to their dealer network outside of the US, but that dealer network is fairly small so I'm sure it's not convenient for those that don't leave near one.

One point that is very valid though... The Brompton is an old design... and it works. It may not be perfect for everyone, but it's extremely reliable from the reports I've seen. The Tikit is a new design... and it will still be a few years before we know if it is nearly as reliable as the Brompton has been.

It's been interesting to read everyone's thoughts here.

Just to make sure we are talking about the same thing, we have been using the term "standard". So if the rear dropouts are 110 mm like the other poster claimed and one would have a hard time finding an appropriate hub relative to standard rear hubs -- despite the language here, I think that there are varying degrees -- then the hub would be non-standard, IMO.

Personally, I don't think it would be that hard to get a 110 OLD SRAM/SA three speed hub. Here, you almost certainly would have to mail-order it or have your shop do the same. But the dropout spacing is certainly non-standard given the limited set of alternatives.

The difference in scale here is really big. The tikit has about six minor custom parts besides the frame itself, all of which are either unnecessary to use the bike, degrade gracefully, or are as strong as the frame. In contrast, the B's entire drivetrain is special, not to mention the stem and handlebars, cables, brake assembly, suspension system, levers, and shifters.

Not a single one here in Rome or anywhere nearby. Seriously, given the specific repairs I've done here, I think I'd be in big trouble if I had a Brompton.

It's true: I've had the same experience. And for free or trivial cost.

Yep. The most likely place where I think the Tikit's going to have a reliability issue is seatmast latch wear.

I think folding bikes for suitcases is a very small part of the market. Most people are interested in commuting or putting them in their cars and for this purpose the picture accurately shows that the bikes are more or less equal.

Also, I'm tired of people touting the Brompton as the smallest folded packages. It's not. there is a whole slew of smaller folders out there. Although I agree that a Brompton is probably ideal for packing in a suitcase since in that case as long as you meet the 62" requirement there's not much point going smaller.

Standard means it's the most common or prevalent option. Proprietary means it is only used by a single entity. Just because something is nonproprietary that doesn't necessarily mean it's also standard.

The Tikit seems to be a better bicycle:

More gear options, more customizable, more cockpit room for the tall rider, better brakes out of the box, faster fold, better rolling capabilities under "less-than-perfect" asfalt/sidewalk conditions.

For the reasons you are tired from hearing, the Brompton is still a better option. To me. No room for competition yet.

The tikit and the brommie are like apples and oranges. Not the same. I like both. :thumb:

someone said this once "the tikit is a folding BIKE" and "the brompton is a FOLDING bike."

I recently had the chance to try out some folding bikes after reading through much of the advice here. In particular I spent an afternoon at a Brompton shop.

First, the comments regarding twitchy handlebars are true. Yet after 15-20 minutes, I felt this improved greatly. I was able to turn some sharp "figure of 8s" and at the end of the day, I felt comfortable riding in traffic back to the train station. Still I can see how this could turn off potential buyers! I imagine no hands riding would be terribly difficult as well if that's important to some…

I'm 5'11" and found the fit perfectly fine using S-bars and an extended seatpost. I liked a more upright position w/ the option of flexing down for a small tuck.

I had considered it a given that the Tikit would have the better ride, but the Brompton was clearly superior!

Let me say that the Tikit's faster (perhaps 1-2 km/hr or so?) and the Tikit allows you to climb out of the saddle, but the Brompton was so much more comfortable. I rode over cracks, bumps, and everything but curbs. The rear suspension was amazing. If I'd owned the bike, I'd have felt comfortable going down curbs btw but felt that would be poor form on a test ride. My preference at 190lbs is for the Regular suspension and I did not notice a sig. loss of power riding.

There were some things I didn't like about the Brompton that I haven't seen mentioned here.
-- Changing a tire on a 6-speed looks to be a significant endeavor involving flashlights, a stand, and some trial and some error. I'd be wary of doing a long ride in the boonies w/out ready access to support or a mechanic. The Tikit's much easier to deal w/ as far as flats.

-- The gearing system is abominable. While the six speed covers roughly the same gear range as a Tikit, the shifting is much more involved. I heard people talk about how great it is to shift gears at a stand still, but I hadn't realized that you couldn't change the hub gears while pedaling. This became more natural w/ time but even at the end was less efficient. Certainly in rolling hill country you would lose out in having to hold the pedaling to shift up / shift down etc.

So I had and still have some doubts about the Brompton. What crossed off the Tikit from my list though was an incident on a train an hour later that day. I saw a gentleman push his Tikit into a crowd; it was funny b/c he shouted out, "Come on now, don't be afraid!" But there was still a zone of wariness.

BTW, that side by side picture of the two bikes on the first page is misleading; a photoshop trick or photography trickperhaps?

I'll grant that he got his folder on the train. Perhaps if he'd have placed the showercap, it wouldn't have seemed so odd? And of course, if he'd have avoided riding in rush hour in the first place, there'd have been plenty of room…

In that moment, it just seemed to me that the Tikit was an "in your face" kind of folder. Now I've lived in New York and I remember how to elbow my way in and keep my space, but while I love the city, I chose to live somewhere else.

Later that weekend, I was surprised to see a man w/ a Brompton on a bus. I hadn't seen him come on and hadn't noticed what he was carrying. If I hadn't folders on my mind, I may not have paid any attention!

I hope this post can be helpful and does not seem as a slight to either bike. I really did try to give
these bikes a good chance and feel I've been fair in my analysis.

- Any results?
- Do you think the T could be fitted with the B's fenders?
- Could the B's fenders handle Greenspeed Scorchers? Point of reference: they just *barely* fit with the T's front fender.

Interesting: I'd had exactly the opposite experience. Strongly expected the B to have a smoother ride because of its suspension, but found the T to be somewhat better in testing. On cobblestone brick and dirt and pavement. Tires maybe? I'm over 200. I brought someone along -- much much lighter -- and he had the same experience. But given that it's got suspension, I'm willing to believe our experience with the B, smoothness-wise, was a fluke.

By no means is the Tikit uncomfortable. I believe people have said the Scorchers on the Tikit at low pressure ride very comfortably though I did not have the chance to try out that setup unfortunately.
Likewise, a Thudbuster seatpost may provide more shock absorption.

I've read other experiences as well that have called the Brompton's suspension too "spongey" so I guess it depends on personal preference.

After this weekend, I may be closer to 200. I really lived well in San Francisco!

I have a personal preference for the Tikit over the Brompton when it comes to ride quality. Just chiming in for the count.

Jur is right: It's apple vs. orange. I like both and am glad we have fruit variety to choose from but where is the banana and the pineapple? I like them, too.