invisiblehand

I think that one or two folks with Bromptons on the YAK group said that the Scorchers do not fit on a Brompton. But that is a pretty fuzzy memory.

feijai

Google finds nothing. If true, it probably also means no Brompton fenders for the Tikit too. Awwww. SesameCrunch, did you do any tests?

SesameCrunch

OK, finally got a chance to compare the two.

The Brompton's fenders definitely will within the Tikit. Lots of clearance. You will have to fashion some of the hardware pieces because of the difference in bolt locations.

As for the Scorchers, I don't have them. But the clearance between the fenders and tires on both bikes are roughly the same. So, if they fit your Tikit, they should fit the Brompton.

invisiblehand

I just searched BromptonTalk. According to those guys, fitting Scorchers is no-can-do. There is a long chain of posts but here is a decent summary.

"I think these are the nominal widths when inflated, but that's
not the problem. The Brompton frame's minimum clearance is at
the bridge across the chainstays, and the Scorcher's diameter
is (AFAIK) a few mm too big to fit at this point.

I believe the Scorcher can go in the front forks without trouble.

Actually the bridge on my SP is worn and rusted through, so
I'm thinking of reshaping and reinforcing it to give extra
tyre room and to restore some of its strength (though I don't
think it's a very highly stressed part...)"

https://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/36338

chucky

Just sayin for all the hassle it is to shift I don't think I'd bother. Even on my derailleur equipped bike apart from testing/playing with it the front derailleur has only been used once, on a group ride, when I was too embarrassed to possibly put a foot down on a really steep hill (though after all the faffing about, shifting all the way up on the RD and down on the FD and again in reverse after the crest, I think I would have been faster even if I did lose balance in a higher gear). Can't wait to finish my wheel build for that bike to convert it to IGH.

If this isn't a highly stressed part you have to wonder why Brompton doesn't give more clearance by shaping it differently. I mean, I don't see how it could possibly affect the size of the fold, especially if the tube were simply crimped a few mm.

invisiblehand

You got me. Later in that thread the individual did the modification but discovered the larger tire interfered with the fold.

Urbanis

I find it interesting that no one has yet commented on how the Brompton and Tikit measure up with regards to carrying things--don't any of you use your bicycle to commute, buy groceries, or run errands?

The key measures in this category would be: how much cargo capacity, can standard bike bags be used (panniers, rack bags, etc.) rather than special bags designed uniquely for this bike, and how well does the bike ride when semi- to fully-loaded?

feijai

That's really too bad: the Scorcher TR is IMHO easily the best 349 tire right now. Happily pounding Rome cobblestone on them right now

chucky

Definitely think the Brompton has the advantage here because it provides a stable base while folded on which you can load the front bag. Although, it does kind of irk me that the rear rack can't really be used as a rear rack because it's a stand for the folded bike and a heavy one at that.

I don't think standard bike bags are much of a plus because I don't think they're very good cargo solutions to begin with and are particularly ill suited to smaller wheels. Bags and stuff aren't like other parts which need to be replaced as they wear.

Lalato

I find the Tikit to be very capable in this regard with a front rack and an Ortlieb pannier. I don't have the rear rack so I can't comment on that, but I don't think it would be possible to use a rear rack and pannier while shopping. If you're going on a quick run to the grocery, the front pannier is ideal. No need to get a basket, just stuff everything in the pannier and unload when you get to the checkout. When you're done... stuff the groceries back into the pannier and ride away. I've done this several times with mine.

Here's a video showing off the technique...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSSgkcWqR6I

That said, the Brompton has several bags specifically made for it. I don't have any experience with them, but I would assume that it could be used in a similar fashion... with specially made handlebar bag.

I couldn't find a video of someone shopping with the handlebar bag, but this video shows how someone would leave the handlebars up while rolling the bike.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUfSJ1sG--c

Without any experience on the Brompton, I can't say which method is better overall. All I can say is that I had no problems using my Tikit as a shopper. OK... one problem. In Chicago, my supermarket used revolving doors and they weren't fun to navigate with a folder. I often opted to use the handicap entrance.

--sam

feijai

The tikit has several options: a rear rack (which everyone oughta get anyway, it makes the bike much stabler when folded), a one-sided front rack, and a two-sided front rack, various trailers, and assorted standard handlebar and seatmast bags etc.

• The two-sided front rack can take any standard panniers. See picture. As a low-trail bike, the Tikit handles balanced panniers with aplomb.
  
• The one-sided front rack (which I have) can take one standard pannier. However since it's only one sided, the bike is unruly when loaded down heavily. Still, I've ridden home with a Detours Teeco filled with four large glass bottles of water, so there. The tikit can be folded and wheeled about with a pannier attached to the one-sided front rack (or to the right side of the double rack). You can shop with the tikit and a pannier, though in the hard tile of a grocery store the Brompton's shopping solution is less unwieldy.
  
• The rear rack takes standard boxes of all kinds (even this) but is too low to take standard panniers, and they'd cause heel strikes anyway. However it can take two Detours Teeco bags very well in this configuration. Bike Friday recommends the Teeco for the front rack but it's not particularly good there. But on the thick insulated rear rack, it's a champ. I also have a handlebar bag (an Axiom Adriondack) permanently attached to the right side of my rear rack and it works great: and also it fits between the wheels when folded. See various pictures. I've had little difficulty riding the bike with the rear rack loaded down, but obviously the front double rack is more optimal. Bike Friday was rumored to be coming out with a standard pannier-mountable rear rack for the tikit which didn't interfere with the fold, but this never happened.
  
• All the trailer stuff is standard, though Bike Friday famously has a suitcase which doubles as a trailer (another picture).
  
• The tikit can take practically any handlebar or seatmast bag, with a lot of space for them too. Because the tikit's seatmast folds rather than collapses, you can keep the various bags on the seat (and handlebars) when folded.

Sadly, while hunting this down, I discovered that I have now posted 371 times. I need to get a life.

invisiblehand

The front bag on a Brompton -- maybe not the S-type -- can fit a lot of crap in there. A tikit with the dual front rack can fit two panniers on the front. Just on my own wild @ss speculation, I would think that the Brompton bag could fit more than two small panniers.

But either can carry enough stuff for a commute.

SC should be able to answer this. He had the Merc with the front bag longer than me.

invisiblehand

Unfortunately, this metric can only get worse. I'm a little past four thousand.

biaddiction

wow! 800ft of climbing with your brompton! do you have a 3 speed or 6 speed? and when you are climbing the biggest grade with your friend(riding a Tikit), I guess your friend was much easier to pedal up hill than you, right? is it really not hurting your knee with Brompton's gearing? I have Brompton 6 speed and feel it is not enough for this kind of climbing! suggestion? or maybe I should do more training on climbing?

SesameCrunch

I have a 6 speed. I think the Tikit has lower gearing. Feels that way anyway, that's why I let my friend ride it. He doesn't ride as much as I do.

On my Tikit, I routinely ride it up to my kid's school at 1800 ft. elevation. From my house at 70 ft. elevation. Takes about 1 hour and 20 minutes. I love the look on the faces of the teachers and parents when they find out where I rode from.

biaddiction

Amazing You! ! ! 1800 ft ! ! !
so if we talking about climbing 500 ft elevation with Brompton 6 speed, you think it's gearing is enough?

SesameCrunch

I'm sorry, but the answer to your question truly depends on you and how steep the inclines are. I don't know you and your riding background.

I do know that low gear on the standard 6 speed Brompton is about 34", and is very comfortable for me in climbing hills up to 10% grade. That gearing is as low as you'll find on most road bike, but not as low as most mountain bikes.

tcs

On multimodal tour with the tikit.

That's an elderly Custom Cycle Fitments saddle bag attached to the loops on the frame of the Persons saddle.

This shot was taken last spring, before BF sent me the hand-grip blocking strut upgrade. I don't think I'd load the bike like this now as I can no longer grasp the folded bike firmly enough to do a front wheel roll around with it loaded like this. With the 2010 loop handle it should be fine.

tcs

tcs

According to the numbers given by Mr. Ritchie in an interview, Dahon now sells 40x as many folding bikes a year.

tcs

tcs

Several posters have awarded the tikit superior marks for it's 8-speed rear derailleur drive train. I was disapointed in my Model-T's factory set-up.

In the 1920s bicycle riders and manufacturers discovered that with only a rear derailleur a bicycle is prone to tossing the chain. By 1930 they had solved this problem* but unfortunately BF didn't get the memo. Even though I understand the issue and its causes and have ridden an Alex Moulton bike that has a rear-derailleur-only drive train for the last quarter century with very few issues, I found my tikit tossed the chain to the inside consistantly, jamming it down into the frame and folding bits in a nasty way. Because of the design of the tikit, standard fixes for this old problem are difficult to implement.

I eventually grew weary of this and converted the bike to IGH.

tcs

*Fred DeLong took some high speed photos of rear-derailleur-only chain tossing back in the 1960s which illustrated why it happens.

feijai

So I don't understand. You're saying that Moulton also didn't get the memo? Or is it possible that there are some engineering tradeoffs involved here? (that's not a rhetorical question)

And so pray tell, how did they solve the problem? Don't leave us hanging.

It seems to me that a simple approach would be to attach some kind of small chain deflector to the bike. The obvious location would be to attach it to the third-leg "stand" on which the bike rests when it's folded. I guess you could add a second chainring guard to the inside too.

My tikit never tossed the chain until recently, when it started doing it a lot. I found out the problem: a broken tooth on the chainring was snagging the chain and lifting it up. I filed the tooth down a little bit and the problem went away. However these experiences were exasperated by the fact that on my tikit BF used a crank that clearly used to be a three-chainring crank which they machined down to a double-chainring crank. This left some "stubs" on the back side of the crank which made it REALLY REALLY hard to get the chain back on the chainring when it fell off to the inside. Just awful. Thankfully I got some free Shimano 2-chainring cranks from a friend, making chain re-instatement simple like any other bike. But BF shouldn't be doing that. Beyond the stubs, I've not had other parts of the tikit ever cause chainring snags. Where did you have problems?

tcs

That is correct. Dr. Moulton has specified rear-derailleur-only drive trains on some of his models for 45 years; Moulton riders have complained about chain tossing for as long. I can forgive: genius without foibles is insufferable.

The best way: install a front derailleur - and a second chainwheel and shifter! Other approaches: install a small chainkeeper over the chain wheel to prevent the chain from popping off the teeth. Use inner and outer pieplates. Use a chain deflector to the inside and a pieplate to the outside in combination (as factory implemented on my wife's Dahon MuP8). A non-derailleur chainwheel with taller teeth helps. Modify the rider's shifting and pedaling technique. Or, if the total gear range of a rear-derailleur-only set-up is adequate, use an IGH drivetrain instead.

Best,
tcs

invisiblehand

I think that I saw a tikit with the "pie plate" method of keeping the chain on.

Jay Gaerlan used to sell a simple roller that went over the top of the chainring that prevented the chain from falling off.

I also wonder whether Bike Friday's chain keeper -- designed to keep the chain on a NWT during the folding process -- could be modified as a simple chainkeeper for the tikit.

tcs

I believe the derailleur 8-speed tikits (certainly mine) have an outer pie plate but not an inner one.

tcs

invisiblehand

Hahahaha ... well at least they addressed 50% of the problem.

Here is Jay Gaerlan's rollerkit.

https://www.gaerlan.com/others2/roller/roller.htm