rosiebud

Thank you Urbanis.

Please explain in simpler terms:
"The important specification is not so much number of gears but your *gear range*--30"-90" is decent for regular commuting in varied terrain.)"

rosiebud

vmaniqui, what exactly do you mean its different when you get it? Did this happen to you?

rosiebud

What does everyone think of this?

https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/bik/1859433126.html

feijai

Gear range is the difference between the easiest gear and the hardest gear on your bike. You'd want that as wide as possible because it gives you the most options when you're biking. Going up steep hills? No problem, shift down to very low gears. Want to go fast? No problem shift up to very high gears.

If your gear range is narrow, then you'll either have a range that's mostly low gears (you can't go fast), high gears (you can't go up hills), or mid-range gears (you can't do either!). The worst-case scenario is a single gear, where you have no options at all -- you must choose how hard that single gear will be (if you can choose at all!)

Why does the *number* of gears not really matter so much? Even if you have lots of gears, they could be very narrowly spaced and your gear range is very narrow. Racers like this so they can make little tiny changes in their gearing for maximum efficiency. But it's irrelevant to you. What you want is (1) for that minimum and maximum gearing to be as FAR APART as possible and (2) for the minimum and the maximum to be located in good spots, gear-difficulty-wise, so you can go up hills and go fast too.


A great bike for enthusiasts who are into vintage bikes. Not a great bike for you.

rosiebud

Thank you feijai for the explanation. Tks also for your take on the Raleigh Twenty. So, would that mean that a 6-7 speed would be good for me?

Urbanis

Hi Rosie, as I said earlier, stay away from a Raleigh 20--that is for serious bike mechanics to play around with and you will not be happy.

As Feijai so elegantly explained, it's not about number of speeds, it's about range. For example, a Dahon Speed D7 has 7 speeds and a gear range of 34" - 92"--perfect for hills and flats! How do I know this? Because I went to the Dahon page for Speed D7, clicked the "Specs tab" and looked at "Gear inches." A Downtube Nova also has 7 speeds but the gear range is only 33" - 66", which means your top speeds will be significantly limited. How do I know this? Because I went to the Downtube page for Nova, and used Sheldon Brown's online gear calculator to figure it out, since Yan didn't state it directly. This is why I recommended the Dahon Speed D7 and did not recommend the Downtube Nova. (For the record, I've ridden both bicycles and I sold my Nova quickly because the limited gearing made for a slow ride. I didn't know about gear inches then--like you, I thought number of speeds was important--but I learned my lesson quickly! I am trying to save you from making the same mistake.)

But rather than use Sheldon's calculator, it might be easier for you if you don't have this information about a particular bicycle to ask the vendor directly (e.g., "What's the range in gear inches for this bicycle?"). Again, any reputable dealer wants you to be satisfied with your purchase.

In short, what I believe you want is a bicycle with a gear range of approximately 30"-90" (or greater); once you have that range, then the speeds give you options to fine-tune your pace. 6-9 speeds are plenty for city riding. If you do more serious long-distance riding (say 50 miles on weekend), then it is useful to have more speeds (anywhere from 12-27).

If you want to learn more, you can look at the Wikipedia article on bicycle gearing; Sheldon Brown also has a treasure trove of information on the subject (more than you probably ever wanted to know!).

rosiebud

ok, now things are getting a BIT clearer. 30 to 90" gear range and 6 - 9 speeds. Now I can start to make an intelligent decision...

You guys are great!!

Urbanis

Definitely try before you buy, if at all possible. The Speed D7 is one of Dahon's most popular models and is carried in several bike shops across the city, not just the folding bike specialists. If in doubt, just call the shop before you visit it to see if they have one in stock.

As for the Downtube 8H, unfortunately you generally have to buy them from Yan (Downtube's owner) over the internet unless you can visit his store in Pennsylvania. See if there's anyone on these forums in the NYC area who has a Downtube 8H and send them a private message asking if you can meet up to try theirs out. That's how I was able to try out my Downtube Mini before buying it. Failing that, Yan does have a 30-day money back guarantee, minus the shipping costs. He is an honest and helpful businessman, and responds quickly to your questions. For what it's worth, my first folder was a Downtube 8H. It's a solid, decent starter bike--not great in any particular aspect but it performs reasonably well at many tasks and has a lot of quality for the price.

Have fun! And don't worry about getting a "perfect" bike your first time out. Just find a decent bike that's good enough to get you out the door and riding regularly and enjoying it. If you fall in love with the activity, then over time as you better understand your needs (and your needs will evolve), you can invest more time and money into getting better bike(s). This is what so many of us have done, including yours truly. (I am on folding bike #6--a serious case of "folder-itis.")

feijai

Rosiebud, I'm not sure how far you are from NYC proper. But you should call up and/or visit bfold, a hole of a shop just off of Union Square in Manhattan. David Lam, the proprietor, knows folding bikes better than anyone and can suggest things for you. Note that his bikes are all more expensive than you're looking for (he doesn't carry Dahon I believe). Second, you should contact Thor, who can give you very good suggestions and deals on Dahons. If you're going cheap, I would look at the Speed D7. Slightly more money would get you a Speed P8. I would avoid the ECO D7, Mariner, Curve, and Uno. You might also talk to Yan Lyansky at Downtube, which are perfectly good choices, though I think you'll find Dahon's bikes better picks for you.

Urbanis

I bought my Swift at bfold on Friday and I *did* happen to see a Dahon on the shelf (but didn't check which model).

rosiebud

I looked at their website today. Yikees! The prices are difinitely Manhattan prices. LOL!!

Good to know so I can go and at least check it out...

Urbanis

They're good people at bfold and won't pressure you to buy.

snafu21

"I would avoid the ECO D7, Mariner, Curve, and Uno."

I can heartily recommend the ECO D7, and Mariner D7. The Curve is small, and popular with owners. The Uno has only one gear. The alloy frame Mariner is light, speedy and practical, the Eco D7 similar but with a steel frame. The Downtubes are very good value for money, and the FS models extremely comfortable to ride.

More gear 'range' is better in headwinds, on hills, and for carrying luggage. Only psychotics buy bikes with one gear.

feijai

I don't mean to denigrate these bikes, they're all perfectly nice: I think they've bad choices for *HER* given her stated preferences. The Eco D7 and Curve (D3) have too small a gear range (as, of course, does the Uno). The Mariner D7 doesn't buy her anything meaningful over the Speed D7, and costs $100 more. The Speed D8 *is* a nice upgrade for her (at $200 more of course).

In Dahon's lineup, I think the D7 is the right pick, for her followed by the D8. And not the others.

JCFlack

I own a Citizen Tokyo. The Citizens are good, not great, bikes, but not a bad value considering the price. I've had a good experience with their customer service too. But you seem to be really concerned about fit, so you may want to go with a bike that you can actually try before you buy. That means that you might do best buying a good quality used bike from a local owner. Or I've noticed that my local Performance store usually has a few Dahons in stock. I've seen a Boardwalk (single speed but well within your price range), an Eco 3 D7 (seven speed under $400), and a Mariner D7 in the store recently.

bhkyte

Often people look at folders as being a cheap "novelty" option that they want to spend less than they might on a "proper" rigid bike.

However, folders do something that normal bike can not; fold.

Pound for pound folders cost more, but first folder timer buyers may expect to get the fold feature for free! Either expect less for your money, or pay more to get what you need.

I feel this is the best way of looking at the first folder purchase. I "dabbled" with cheap used folders (mostly), then when I found what I wanted purchased a more expensive folder.

Happy hunting!

rosiebud

OMG! is this bike ugly or not!! JMO, of course...

https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/bik/1864564679.html

ratdog

rosiebud,

pmed you.

rosiebud

Can all folders gears be upgraded?

feijai

Nope.

rosiebud

Just came back from 3 LBS's. Saw Dahon -Mariner, Curve, Speed 7 and MU, Schwinn World, Boardwalk and a really crappy one with very bright neon colors with a colorful daisy on the front. Mood or something like that.

Tried out the Speed, World and just sat on the Boardwalk and that Mood one.

I was very surprised on the poor quality of the Boardwalk. The Dahons were really light and of very good quality. The Schwinn was much larger than the Dahon and a bit heavier also and the quality might not have been as nice as the Dahon but wasn't bad either. Of course, I am not a bike expert, this was just what my eyes saw on the outside.

Test drove the Dahon Speed 7 and the Schwinn World.

The ratio of the handlebars to the seat was not quite comfortable and the seat was not comfortable at all. The guy said he could change that to another stem.

I hate to disappoint all the Dahon fans here but I really liked the Schwinn. The seat was super soft, handlebars felt just right. I think I liked the Kent Transit it tried two week ago, but can't bring back the past.

Believe it or not the Schwinn was more expensive then the Dahon's.

I tried another store that had KHS but they had no folders at all. Soooo.

I would like to try the KHS, Gotham, Downtube and Barcelona, but at least I know now that the Dahon is not for me. Sorry!!!

Maybe I will get lucky and CL will have a others for me to try.

I also want to THANK EVERYONE FOR THEIR OPINIONS AND HELPFUL INSIGHTS AND INFORMATION.

PawsonBikes

Here is my 2 cents. I purchased a Miami by Citizen over a year ago and I am no expert, but I love my bike, I use almost on a daily basis. I have not used my touring bike at all. I was on a very tight buget and wanted a folding bike to keep in the trunk of the car, I don't even put it in the trunk since I use it so often. I too purchased before finding this forum, but I have to say I have no regrets, eventually I will be purchasing a folder for touring - still undecided, but I am doing a 7 day tour down to the Florida Keys and I am going to use the Miami. The best thing I can say is get out and ride, go with your budget and eventually you can get a better model. Happy riding!

I do take my dogs with me (if both go along I attach the doggie trailer, that also doubles for bringing groceries home)

SunnyFlorida

The heart wants what the heart wants. In your case it's the Schwinn. Hope you and your Schwinn live happily ever after - or at least until you want to upgrade and give it the ole heave ho.

rosiebud

Not so much my heart but my butt! LOL! The seat was really comfortable, but I do not see any reviews that are favorable. I still want to wait and see others. Any other reviews on the Barcelona that I can't find? what are peoples opinion on the Gotham?

vmaniqui

seat you can change easily but the frame and the bike you can't. not unless you buy a new one. i was surprised that you like the schwinn better than the dahons. really surprised. the schwinn you're talking about is a full size bike compare to dahons that are 20/16 inches. that is why it is more expensive. you're comparing apples to oranges. try the full size dahons and you can tell the difference between the schwinn world. not to discredit the citizen bikes, but if you can save a little and get ahold of a much nicer bike the better off you are. just my 2 cents. been there done that...