I've been very pleased with my Bike Fridays.



Even with my rim brake New World Tourist I'm able to venture off the beaten path!

OK, that Llama is just what I'm looking for! Looks rack-friendly too. I've sent an email to BF.

No problem - it will take regular racks or Bike Friday packable travel racks [shown in photo above].

349 wheel bikes use a 74 wide front hub, there are no commonly made front disc hubs that narrow.

[Greenspeed will ship one of their custom modified drum hubs from Australia To the US, if ordered..
(they have long modified sturmey drum brake hubs to use on the front of their Tadpole trikes)..

Bike Fridays with 100 mm wide front hubs are 406 wheel.

OK, if I were to upgrade a non-disc folder to front disc, it does look like 20" disc forks are not common. But they are made for both the recumbent and mod trials markets, and are available in both 1" and 1.125":
https://hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/read...ory=1229623887
https://webcyclery.com/home.php?cat=326

If I were to do this route I would also have to make sure the A-C length and offset are appropriate for the bike in question, but I'll cross that bridge if/when I come to it.

My first folding bike was a Downtube FS with Velocity disc wheels. So they work with disc brakes for sure. However, you should be aware that:

1) You can't install a rear rack, as the rear section is on a suspended swing arm.
2) The frame is beefy to be sure, and the weight of the bike reflects that. It's probably close to 29lbs in real life.
3) The components are cheap. For the kind of riding you do, you're going to want to upgrade the drivetrain for sure.

So, while I am a DT fan in general, I would personally not choose it for the kind of commuting you're doing.

I have owned both Brompton and Bike Fridays. For your purposes, I would choose the BF for customize-abilty and maintainability. The Brompton has a lot of proprietary parts. And it looks like you will be putting wear and tear on your bike.

you can put a standard rack on a Xootr Swift; I've done it. There are eylets on the back, and you just put the clamps on either of the quick-release levers that holds the seatpost in place. Folds just fine.

I'm not sure but think you could just swap the fork on a Swift to mount discs. there's one right here:

https://www.xootr.com/gallery_swift-f...0disc%20brakes

if you don't need a teensy fold, the Swift sounds like a great bike for your needs. And I bet it will be cheaper than a Bike Friday

I would be looking at the front-suspension DT model, not the full-suspension model, so the rear rack shouldn't be a problem. Also helps save weight, especially after swapping out to a rigid fork. I've read a lot about the cheap components, but I'd be making a bunch of parts swaps almost immediately so that's not much of an issue. I would be swapping in drop bars with STI levers, Avid Road Discs, an XT derailer, a different (custom-spaced) cassette, saddle and pedals. Most likely also an old Ultegra 600 crank with a 52t ring, so while I'm doing that I might as well swap in a quality BB. I already own every single one of these parts except the fork, so the expense is minimal.

What's that? Why yes, I AM practically rebuilding the bike back up from the frame. Except for its big wheels and inability to fold, I have my commuter bike dialed. I would just as soon just buy a frameset and wheelset rather than a complete bike. One of the attractions of the Downtube is that I AM getting cheap components, which saves me money. As long as the frame is of high quality, I'm good. Sure, I'd love to just buy a frameset and wheelset from either Swift or BF, but I doubt they offer that option (though maybe I should inquire).

Thanks for the confirmation!

Any idea what they did to get the rear disc mounted? Every picture I've seen of the Xootr version of this frame lacks disc tabs, and since it's aluminum it would not be an easy mod. Unless they've just recently updated the design? Maybe an email to Xootr is in order.

You can get the Xootr Swift frameset only. They have been doing that since the start via the designer, Peter Reich.

and these days, directly from the company: https://www.xootr.com/swift-frame-set.html

I know what you said about wheel size but what about 24 with discs? https://www.thorusa.com/dahon/current/iosxl.htm

Unfortunately, my transit agency has two rules with respect to folding bikes:
1. Folding bikes may be carried anywhere on the train (or bus), but must not exceed 20" in wheel size.
2. Spaces designated for bikes must NOT be used for folding bikes.

You'd HOPE rule #2 would only be applied to 20" and smaller folders (those covered by rule #1) but the rules do not say that. At least technically, a 24" or 26" folder isn't allowed AT ALL. Realistically, in most cases I could probably get away with it, but some of the fare inspectors and train operators have been getting pretty strict. I'm not willing to risk it.

Whoa, did not know that! Perfect! That and a wheelset are all I need. I'll contact Xootr and ask if it is disc compatible or could be ordered that way.

If it wasn't for the light to moderate offroading needs and price under US$1000, I would continue to suggest the modified Brompton since it would offer you the BEST FOLDED option.

I am more inclined to suggest a Downtube (if money is an issue) or a custom Bike Friday (if you have the super power of unlimited budget). Whatever you do, the final product will be quite unique and we ask as part of the natural laws of retribution, lots of high quality pictures focusing on every single detail/changes made.

Once again, good luck on your final decision.

Except for the one you linked, most 20" recumbent forks have way too much offset and 20" BMX forks are extremely heavy, even the ones for racing. You could get a carbon fork for the price of the aluminum recumbent disc fork you linked.

The Swift has a very high A-C length...you will not find a fork to match, but the stock fork is fortunately steel so you could get disc braze ons for that and use V-brakes in the rear (think of it as a backup as you don't really need a rear brake anyway).

The rigid Downtube fork is not disc compatible. Also, did I mention that the disc compatible suspension fork is 4.5 pounds?

I second this opinion. I'm up in Seattle and have no problem with rim brakes (drum dyno would be nice). Bike Friday would be another nice choice. I don't think the'll do discs on the fork of the Tikit, but discs on a l
Llama would be nice.

Good luck and report back when the dust clears. I'm interested to hear what you end up with.

Thanks, and I absolutely will do so!

A note on racks : how big are your shoes? the 42.5cm chainstays of BF designs can make it difficult to get a rack that gives you good heel clearance, go with tubus cosmo rear rack, you can get adapters that will allow for attaching it to rear stays and you can get the panniers lower with the second horizontal bar. The BF rack (have one, don't like) doesnt need to put the load so high, even on a 20" bike. Any popular panniers ortlieb+vaude+carradice will still hang with enough ground clearance, and also the tubus design is narrower width at top which will angle bag away from and over the rear derailleur. Also go with shimano shadow rear deraiulleur to have less protusion.

Any word still on when swift will do steel frameset? Seemed like it was in the works for a while back then, but no more.

OP hard requirement: ISO406mm wheels
Brompton: ISO349 wheels

Good point. You have to pedal too damn fast with those small wheels to get anywhere IMO...

Talked to the Xootr folks today. No disc tabs. Also talked to BF. They will do discs, although they encouraged me to consider rim brakes for the rear because that's one less rotor to get bent in a folding/packing situation. But they will do it, and they will install a braze-on that allows a standard rack to clear the disc caliper without using a standoff -- very nice. Extremely knowledgeable and helpful (consistent with everything I've ever heard about Bike Friday).

I have to admit, I'm leaning towards the Swift (the steel one from CAT/HPM, which does include discs as an option). Not just because the price would likely be quite a bit lower (though still a bit over $1k). There's a cleverness and elegance about the Swift's design that really appeals to me, and I really like the opinions I'm reading so far about the riding experience. I'm just starting to read the Swift thread and have a long ways to go.

Of course the real decision will come after the test ride. Sometime in the next few weeks I'll find a way to get myself down to Eugene for test rides of both bikes. Being able test ride both bikes in the same day, and see how I like their folding mechanisms firsthand, will be fantastic.

Because the Swift has a steel fork, you can have mounts brazed on in a jiffy. Repainting is limited to the fork. Dropouts are standard so a standard front hub is used.

OK, the Swift does fold, so it seems to meets your transit agency's policies. But just a note here: On the HPM web site they say the Swift is "designed to fold quickly and easily into a 10″x21.5″x30″ unit". It's hard to describe this misinformation in charitable terms.

The only folding the Swift does - and I think the only folding you'll want to consider in the daily dashing up and boarding the light-rail multimodal situation is the 36.5 x 40.25 x 20" quick fold. See:

https://www.xootr.com/swift-folded-dimensions.html

Every other Swift pack-down configuration involves breaking out tools and disassembling part of the bike.

As multi-modal folding bikes go, 36.5 x 40.25 x 20 is HUGE. Compare this to the Brompton's 22.2 x 21.5 x 10.6, the tikit's 15 x 24 x 35, or even the plebeian Dahon Eco 3's 11.7 x 31.2 x 25.7. The Dahon Ios XL, with its 24" wheels that you say your transit agency will not accept, folds into 14.9 x 30.7 x 32.2 - still substantially smaller than the Swift.

IMO in daily multi-modal use the Swift will quickly seem like a large, awkward package both boarding/deboarding and also once aboard and occupying space as you stand with your fellow passengers.

But of course it's your call and you may be willing to put up with this to get the other things you want.

tcs

It's hard to be charitable about THAT misleading bunch of statements... sure the Swift is larger than most other folders when viwed from the side, but as for floor space it occupies... that is limited to a narrow strip. The Swift easily leans against a bulkhead occupying very little floor space unlike other folders which can be quite bulky sideways, occupying more floorspace.