Very interesting fold!

I am a little concerned about the ride, though - the demonstrator said "Definitely not a good idea for long distances." (Mit Sicherheit kein Konzept fuer die Langstrecke.) And kept emphasizing its usefulness for yachting and RV'ing.

Nice fold but shame about the bike unfolded! Poor choice of colour for an exhibit bike too!

Re. the Dahon Curl i'd expect to see it be way lighter than the Brompton (max 10kg) with integral front hub dynamo and Alfine 8 gears lol!

folds abit like a diblasi, ie long lever effecting others joints to move, which is good I hope the development. continues.

Useful indeed. If your yacht is long enough, walking from one end to the other becomes a problem.

The fold still leaves the chain and gear exposed to the user or others.

It's going to be hard to top Brompton especially where the fold, ride, and quality are concerned. It's one thing if Dahons are half the price, then, you've got a reason to debate it's shortcomings but if it's within a couple hundred dollars or the same price one has to ask, what, exactly, is it Dahon offers over a Brompton (or BF or?).

Hate to dash your hopes, Mully, but I saw a Curl in person for the first time at the Interbike show. The weight was listed at 28lbs for a single speed. I took some pictures. Will upload them shortly.

Is the Curl in production?

I guess the crank epicyclic thingy adds a load of weight. . . not so good.

The tale of the Emperor's New Clothes comes to mind, but then if you get a yacht free with every Jifo, it's probably not such a bad deal.

Lol!

The Dahon Jifo 16 (not sure why everyone calls it a Jivo) and Dahon Curl are meant to compete against an ever sea of folder bikes below the 20" wheel size. Guess who we have besides Brompton. Jango Flik, iXi, Ori M9, Strida, Bike Friday Tikit and the rest. In my town, we have all of the above on the showroom. In my observation, people who buy these folders are not too overly concerned about ride quality, though they do want cushy tires and a good amount of gears to negotiate hills we have here. Their main concern is color and STYLING, because you are getting into a biking population who are not necessarily serious fitness type cyclists, rather commuter like with the main emphasis of

1, Folding speed (Strida bikes have some edge here)
2, Folding size
3, Ease of transportability
4, Look stylish and somewhat expensive
5, Durable and long lasting

Perhaps, Dahon has this figured out and understands what the majority of the market wants. In my opinion, I think Dahon has some valid ideas to the Jifo and Curl designs.

However, as with any dealer, I would not order a bunch of these because there are just so many other makers who are making the same wheel sized bikes. I like the Jifo 16 more and I think this will outsell the Curl. Curl's strength will be with dealers who are not willing to carry the Brompton because of the lack of variety. If you look at a Brompton, it is basically a one bike design that you can put a lot of options on. Whereas with Dahon, you have 16" all the way out to the big wheels, so you have options there for a dealer who may want to populate the shop with other wheel sized bikes.

Let's talk about price tag. Price is just the numerated means for a person to acquire product. Price reflects value, but price can also reflect style. Initially, I thought that during tough economic times, people would hunker down and shop less. However, based on my observations and speaking to industry people, I have found that most consumers are operating with cautious optimism. You probably heard people line up in front of Apple stores whenever you have them releasing new product, even though they are not cheap. Well, I spoke with a friend of mine who runs the cycling and outdoors department of a well known outdoors store and he told me that business operates as usual with people lining up every morning to buy stuff. Their bikes aren't cheap. We are not talking about a $399 or $499, but something like $1300 up to $3000 with good components. He was telling that some customers saved so hard that they were willing to sacrifice other stuff, including sometimes food (cheap and simple as possible), to get the stuff they want. I mean that really sounds extreme, but you see, if the stuff is good, $899 (price I'm guessing) for the Jifo 16 is JUST a NUMBER. People re-arrange their priorities so they can afford $899 simply as that. Sadly, that re-arrangement of priorities effect other industries, but in this kind of economy, you can not always play safe.

What I have noticed thus far in this economy that big companies that have large assets tend to play safe and maintain status-quo (understandable), but smaller companies tend to take on more risks to try and gain market share. I applaud Dahon and Tern for taking some risks. After all, we Asians have a saying that "Chaos breeds opportunity". This is the time.

'Lack of variety' in the Brompton?

It operates off a core fold and frame but I wouldn't say it lacks variety in the options you bolt on to it. It has a design and fold that many people love and I would certainly not put in the poor or average ride quality category. Most people who buy a Brompton still care about ride quality to some extent. I know I did when I bought one. I compared it to a Dahon Curve at the time and I was glad to pay the extra money.

The Brompton's market success speaks for itself. I really doubt the sum total of other ultra-compact folders approaches Brompton's annual sales worldwide. Please correct me if I'm wrong?

Here are some pictures of the Curl unfolded:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/3f3c0728.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/bc5ef450.jpg

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/7022985d.jpg

Here's why they call it the Curl:
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/cc03ecc3.jpg

And a Jifo:

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...s/7d472adf.jpg

I can't tell whether the Curl has rear suspension or if it locks rigid. Those look like elastomers to me though I think I remember in previous threads it was shown that that wasn't the case.
V brakes on the rear and calliper at front. . . makes sense. Don't like the logo or the gloss black but the bike looks good to me.

that curl is not all that sexy or handsome or cute.

i'm shallow like that.

Brompton uses the same frame fold technology which you can customize to what you like. Nothing wrong with that; probably works in the UK well. But the internet is global. What works in the UK does not necessarily work well in other parts of the world either.

Secondly, bike fit is everything and folding bikes for the most part is a one size fits all or few sizes in between. Which means there are few adjustments you can do to make it work for everyone. Thing is, every folding bike has a range of sweet spot that works best for some individuals and not others.

A respected bike fitter I used to work with once told me that it is the bike that must fit you to be the best bike that gives you all the intended performance attributes.
Which means, I don't get to choose the brand name. Whatever fitting came to be will be the brand name that fits me the best. Many times over, I wanted brand X but ended up with brand Y, but never regretted as it takes advantage of my performance attributes while I enjoy its intended best riding attributes (all the angles and weight distribution are right) for a full sized or stock or custom made folder. I have found that some Dahon models fit very well for me, so that's why I like riding them.

You think the Brompton just works well in the UK? Scroll down this PDF to the Financial Times article on Brompton and that will dispel your myth that they are only a UK success.

http://media.ft.com/cms/784efb5e-4cd...144feab49a.pdf

I've seen a 6 feet 7" man cycle a Brompton with a telescopic seat-post. It's the very same fold many companies have tried to copy including Dahon with the Curl. Dahon tend to innovate around the main frame hinge mechanism & half fold but they had to copy some Brompton attributes for the Curl. The Brompton may not be for you but you are somewhat misguided on what some others may think outside of the UK.

I love folding bikes and own a Dahon & Pacific too. The Brommie is the most useful for me overall. It is the commuting segment which is currently the biggest driver of bike sales in many markets. This is where a bike that some see as very limited suddenly gains incredible versatility.

This article says that Brompton produced 25,000 bikes in 2009 and is hoping to increase capacity to 50,000 by 2013. For comparison, based on a 2006 Business Week article [http://www.businessweek.com/magazine.../b3988102.htm] Dahon sold 285,000 bikes in 2005. And I think I read somewhere that Dahon 2009 sales were in excess of 400,000. I'm not saying that one is better than the other --- just pointing out the significant difference in the size of the two companies.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

I never said Brompton were bigger than Dahon. I was making a point that the Brompton brand isn't just successful in the UK market. It also operates in a segment where there is also excess demand for its product. Dahon produce a huge range of bicycles, at times too many models. It is interesting to see Joshua Hon focus the range of Tern bikes much more.

Brompton, Brompton, Brompton ...............Brompton............Brompton..................Brompton,

Bromptons are ugly, heavy, small wheeled, and have limited gearing options but for some reason my Brompton 6S works great for me. Also, being able to identify part numbers and order online is a great plus http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/brompton-shopbrompton_pg1/

Tern mentioned model longevity and part availability as key goals. Looking forward to see what they will come with. So far their practices with the Dahon brand were not great.

I wonder if that was one of the reasons for the split?

Lots find the Brompton quite cool or cute!

It was family reasons. Something quite dramatic. No more said.

Bromptons look different depending on the viewing angle. Sometimes the M bars look like bull's horns, sometimes like floppy bunny's ears.

The more folding bikes there are, the offer for more options to the growing segment of the commuting market will continue. Brompton is going to be popular in the domestic market, just like it's common to see BMW and Mercedes Benz roam around the streets of Germany. Loyal and patriotic consumerism; nothing wrong with that. Dahon's global sales far exceeded Brompton and there is no question that there is a demand for Brompton bikes. I'm just saying that your observation of Brompton where you live are going to be more common compared to where I live. Also I do notice Bromptons are common in high density populated cities like New York. I can see a reason why Bromptons shine there, just not where I live.

Give it time, just give it time, you'll see.

You will be asimulated!

not if they continue with their current dealer policy .....