Ozonation

Thanks for the info - very helpful!

Purpleorchid

If you go to halfway down on Page 2 of this subforum and go look at the thread I started ("About to go look at my first folder (Brompton)"), you will see pics of my raw lacquer. Somehow they ended up being big pics, so they're the biggest pics I've seen of a raw lacquer, if you want to see it close up.

pacificcyclist

Since I used to own a Bike Friday New World Tourist in the past and had owned one of the older Samsonite Oyster 29" case and right now a Delsey 31" hard case which fits both a Brompton without an installed rack or my Dahon Mu SL. I can say that you will have no worries finding a suitcase for a BF NWT to fit in. I'm sure Terns will fit in a suitcase that a Mu SL can fit in too since they have similar dimensions.

A little info on suitcases. There is no such thing as a large suitcase that's being promoted anymore, unless you are buying specifically to haul stuff. Example would be the Rimowa 32" (very expensive) to a BikND Helium bag (also expensive). They make the Tern Airporter bag (75 linear inches) look much more affordable at around $300 or so. Although you may get those on sale as well, but rarely.

Tern bikes should be able to fit into their own Tern bags. The mini version will require some take apart, but not much. This is the same with the Bike Friday too. The only exception is with the Brompton which requires minimal take apart in its own case.

Flying with airlines and bikes. Most of the time, the size of the bags aren't really as important as the weight. Sometimes, they are both really not that important. We flew Westjet last year and the lady at the counter waived my friend's new $3000 carbon bike with a $500 bike case like it was regular luggage! He bought that in Arizona to do the bike trip. I was like --- what!! I brought my Dahon Mu SL for the bike trip. If I knew that they are a bit friendly with bikers, I would have brought my Trek carbon instead! However, our other friends did not fare too well. Those that flew Air Canada got dinged; those on US Airways got dinged too. Oh and when my friend passed through Canadian Customs with his $3000 bike, they just let him through and he didn't have to pay duty and taxes. Perhaps maybe that weekend was Ironman Arizona. I did however get to drool over those very nice and expensive tri bikes being violated by TSA officers, while mine stayed a virgin the whole time. Interesting to see that Phoenix Skyharbour did not have a secluded inspection area like some other airports..

jlg1290

Hi Ozonation,

A few others have mentioned it, and I couldn't be happier with my Season Tikit. The drivetrain and color options are extensive, and as they're custom built you can essentially build your dream bike. The fold is awesome, and always fun, and though it is not the most compact when folded, it rolls quite easily. Also, the ride quality is just about as close as you can get to a full size bike. I have a Dahon Curve SL (also 16" wheels) and while I like it a lot, it never makes me quite as happy as my Tikit.

Urbane Cyclist in Toronto should have a few in stock for you to test ride, though make sure that if you buy one from them it has the new Aardvark instead of the one with the safety bracket. You can find a lot of info about this on Bike Forums and on the Bike Friday website.

Whatever other criteria you have, getting a bike that makes you smile every time you ride it is the most important thing (for me anyway).

Cheers,
jlg

fietsbob

And Bike Friday will ship direct, to your door, so if the exact bike you want
is not on the Urbane cyclist shop floor, No Problem.

Lao

First I will admit I haven't reaed the whole thread but as far as I know, Brompton is the only bike you can pack in a suitcase without disassemble it first. For me that would be a valuable thing.

Ozonation

Thanks for all the advice. Clearly I am just a grasshopper at this - much to learn! I'm heading out to Michigan tomorrow to test ride some bikes - finally located some!

On another note, at least several dealers have told me that Brompton has stopped producing the superlight bikes because of problems in sourcing quality titanium. Not that I was planning to get one... still... well...

Ozonation

Ah... I saw one on a dealer's website, but it has since sold. Too bad!

feijai

Check with Bikes@Vienna.

Dynocoaster 

Tower Velo has a raw.

https://www.towervelo.com/British.html

Ozonation

Well... I learned something today! A very nice dealer let me try out a couple of Bromptons. VERY easy to ride - almost immediately I was very comfortable riding it. I was concerned about the "spacing" (cockpit?) between the handle and seat, but it was no problem at all with the standard M handle and post. I tried the S handle too - I prefer the versatility and slightly better comfort of the M type handle. The hard part came when trying to decide between the 3 speed and 6 speed. After numerous test rides up and down a fairly steep hill, I decided that for my overall purposes I would be best served by the 6 speed gearing.

I was actually surprised by how versatile and efficient the 3 speed - and 6 speed - gearing is on the Brompton. I basically went from a single speed, coaster brake bike when I was a kid, to a cheap 10 speed road bike, and finally a bit better 10 speed road bike when I was a teenager. Now I have a 18 speed hybrid - but only really use about 5 or 6 gear combinations at best. I guess I let myself think that more is better. In fact, the 6 speeds on the Brompton covered just about everything I could need and it seemed very efficient at doing it too.

I was also concerned about how some web comments indicated the ride would not be stiff enough, too much stem flex, or too harsh because of the 16" wheels versus larger 20" tires on other folding brands. Quite honestly, I didn't even notice. The Brompton was nice and nimble for me.

A shame because I would have otherwise just bought one model there, but the model I was seriously considering did not come in the 6 speed gearing. Kudos to the dealer for their patience and help.

I also had a chance to try out a Tern C7. The ride was perhaps a bit stiffer, but I found the Brompton a bit better overall. The Tern was $500; the Brompton $1500. Was the Brompton better? Yes. Was it $1000 better? Well, ah, I don't think so if I have to be blunt. I can see the practical value of having more standard parts on the Tern than the Brompton. However, the folding and overall design of the Brompton was clearly superior. I have to agree with many that the Brompton is THE folding bike based on what I've seen so far.

So, I will have to decide now on exactly what I want, and how much I want to spend. What I'm wondering now is:
1. If I buy a more expensive Tern (say a Link P9), I'm guessing it will come much closer to the Brompton for me in terms of appeal - but probably not as clean of a fold.
2. If I go with the Brompton, is the standard 6 gearing range the best bet? I can't see myself climbing too many hills - but they may happen occasionally. I'm thinking that the standard range is probably the most versatile. Does lowered gearing on the 6 speed Brompton really reduce the fastest speed obtainable compared to the standard 6 speed gearing?
3. If I go with the Brompton, I'm having second thoughts about getting the rack. I was originally planning to: now I'm not so sure it's really necessary. Can the rack be added or taken off easily later on?

I don't even want to think about accessories and bags... :-)

jur

If you get the 6-speed it will cover as-yet unforeseen touring. And unforeseen mountain riding. You would be future-proofing it.

Purpleorchid

Ozonation - Regarding your "wonder #3". I too originally wanted the rack for the ability to put stuff on it or the more stable folded up stance. However, I ended up not getting one and so far I'm not missing the rack. To get a rack later would involve replacing the whole fender piece because the rack is attached to the fender. You can't just bolt it on to the existing fender. I asked the LBS and folks here.

My plan is to live with the H6L for now, and see if I need the rack. If I do, I'll spend the money later to upgrade to the rack.

Oh, another point people here pointed out was: even if you had a rack and had stuff on it, you would not be able to fold it up to kickstand mode without taking the stuff off the rack. It was quite a valid point and what made me decide to live without it first.

Did you decide on a color scheme yet?

alhedges

There is nothing like a test ride.
I have a Brompton and a Bike Friday NWT. I love both bikes...but I think for your purposes the Brompton is the best choice because of the very fast, very quick fold...as well as its integration with accessories.
I would go with the lower gearing - I think it's -12%. IMO the stock setup has too many high gears and not enough low ones. Even on my 3 spd, I'm rarely in the highest gear (and that's with the 12% reduction).
My opinion: don't go with the rack. It's not that useful and it will make the bike easier to carry. It's also not easy to take off and kind of problematic to do so because the rear fender on the B. without the rack is different from the B. with the rack. Specifically, the rear fender on the rackless B. has a small roller on the top of the fender; when you fold the B, that roller prevents the fender from being scraped. The fender on the B. with the rack doesn't have the little roller; the wheels/ ezy wheels on the rack perform that role. But if you took the rack off, I think you'd be bashing your fender a lot...or at least scraping it.

However, I would definitely get the C bag and the smart block to attach it to. It holds quite a lot, and you only have to undo one lever to remove it from the bike (and the bike handles even better with some weight in the front).

I would also get the cover - it goes on quickly and both disguises the bike and keeps any dirt from getting on anyone nearby. (Hotels sometimes frown on you bringing a bike up to your room; I had that issue last year when I took my Friday on a trip. Covering the B. will prevent this issue entirely.)

jur

I got mine with the rack and used it for a while like that; but since I never actually used the rack, I took it off and am using the same mudguard after modding it, and after buying the required stays and little mudguard wheel. The big thing now is, it tends to fall over when folded. The rack's wheels are mounted to the side that the weight goes when folded, so it is stable. But with the little wheel only, mine over-balances. Also, the little wheel does not roll - it just sticks when trying to roll it folded. It is free to rotate when trying it with a finger. I can pull the bike by the seat but not push it as before with the rack on it. That little wheel sucks.

Lao

I went with the standard gearing because as you, I didn't think I would climb any steep hills. That was stupid... not because I have missed the lower gearing (I still don't need to climb hills with it) but I know that I won't need the highest gear, not ever. But I might need lower gears for those rare occasions I will climb hills in the future. Point being: If you don't ride really fast with it you won't need standard gearing and while you might not need lowered gearing either, it can come in handy if you decide to ride in hilly areas.


This is how I thought as well. But I am starting to regret that. I went for the 6 speed and my problem is that the front wheel touches the ground when folded and the spokes hit the chain like thingy that controls the IGH so I can't roll the bike. If I bend the hook that keeps it folded so that the wheel comes out or up a bit the bike gets very unstable and can tip quite easily. Plus with the rack you can get the bike into shopping cart mode. So for me the lesser weight of the L-model wasn't enough gain compared to the stability and rolling ability you get with a rack (I assume).

chagzuki

I'm surprised by that. I assumed the stock models wouldn't suffer from that problem. . . mine does but I installed a 5 speed hub that has a gear chain which protrudes further than with the 3 speeds. Despite a bit of modding I couldn't prevent it from protruding between the spokes. I use a rack so it's not really a problem.

But in your case it sounds as though something is wrong with the way your bike is set up.

chagzuki

The problem with the rack is (besides the absurd price) the extra weight. I've wondered about cutting off some of the alloy sections since I'll never use it to carry anything. Really a new rack needs to be designed specifically for rolling and minimal weight.

oldmill

I have a red Brompton 6-spd with a rear rack that I plan to sell soon so that I can get a Tern (I like the 20" wheels better than 16", as I plan on doing longer rides than just the commute.) I bought it new in 2009 from Trophy Bikes in Philadelphia, and it hasn't seen many miles since. It's at NYCE Wheels getting the gears adjusted right now, and I could have them pack and ship it to you. I'm asking $1050 for it, through PayPal. That prices includes the Brompton bag for the back rack. Let me know if you're interested. Thanks

Ozonation

Yes, that seems to be consensus of the rack - unless you absolutely need it, you can probably live without it. I'm a bit torn. I can "sort" of see myself using it occasionally when shopping and I do carry the occasional odd bulky thing when going to work. I can already see myself finding excuses to ride to work.

Colour scheme? Ach! I can't believe I'd obsess over colour! My personal favourite is solid racing green or maybe the raw lacquer. I had a good discussion with NYCE and they often order a main colour with black extremities to help hide dirt, grime, and grease that accumulates over time. I'd rather get a bike sooner rather than later, but if I go with the reduced gearing as one poster has suggested, I might as well get a b-spoke colour scheme of solid racing green (or even raw lacquer).

Dynocoaster 

https://pathlesspedaled.com/2011/02/b...-small-wheels/

Ozonation

Great link. I had already seen it. I confess... I'm not sure what your intended point was? I'm guessing that having the rack is better than not having it then?

Ozonation

I tried to private message you Old Mill, but apparently as a junior member, I don't have enough posts to do so. So, tell me more about this bike. Bright red? Claret red? What are you doing with the gearing? Thanks a lot.

oldmill

Sorry about the mesage trouble. I have it in the shop because one of the ears was skipping. I'm not changing the ratios or anything like that - just a repair. The color is a medium red, a bit darker than the red they have featured on their site now, but not as dark as the claret. My e-mail is jtr123@nyc.rr.com if you need more info.

Purpleorchid

Ozonation - If you do an internet search for "brompton flikr", there will be tons of pics of peoples Bromptons. Within the page, you can search for "racing green"...there were 8 pics. There lots of raw lacquer bike pics too. A real world look at all sorts of color combos.

Good luck!