The one disadvantage of the standard Brompton design is that you need to hold the clamping plate vertical while screwing up the lever bolts... I changed mine to the Brompfiction ones which are designed so that the clamp can not spin around. Much better design and I wish Brompton would use this design themselves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=8uj86-8WO7E

One other BIG advantage with Brompton bikes is that you can easily buy virtually any spare part (even for the older bikes) quickly and easily online from a range of dealers. Try that for a Dahon ... the bolt holding little plastic lever "safety catch"on my MU SL fell off one morning (in 2008) so I tried ordering a replacement from the UK Dahon distributor.......... guess what? No bolt ever arrived (I had to go to a local bolt / fasteners specialist for something suitable). Thor might be a Godsend to Dahon owners but most of the dealers don't seem to be bothered..... maybe they see Dahons as "disposable bikes" rather than something worth carrying spares for?

I don't see a problem with true fans of brand X or Y, except when it's motivated by commercial interests. Over time I learned the various commercial interests in this forum and mostly ignore those posts. This is the nature of interaction between a diverse and free group of people.

Freedom good.
Bombardment with dogma bad ! Lol

yes. it should also be okay for people to disagree strongly. polemic is good. if someone wants to insist that their bike of choice is the very best for a given application, let that person argue his or her points as vociferously as they wish. if others disagree, let the battle begin. as long as the debate doesnt devolve into ad hominem attacks, then surely, there is much to be learned from such conversations for participants and lurkers alike.

regarding sellers:

forms of social media like this forum are seen as free advertising. even though most do acknowledge that they are sellers (as they are required to do by forum rules), their presence here is in some ways manipulative. i recall when i first started reading posts in this forum i was a bit naive and it took me awhile to realize, "oh, of course. these aren't only enthusiasts chatting about something they enjoy; there are people in here selling stuff as well."

this forum receives a continuous trickle of newbie posters asking "which bike should i buy? A,B, or C?" these posters are the most easily seduced. "wow. i'm actually talking to the owner of the company!" something some of these sellers may not realize is this: the primary thing they are advertising and selling is their customer service and trustworthiness; and they are doing it publicly. as our friend Champignon said in a recent thread:

"Enthusiast forums are frequently used by commercial interests as a form of free, or almost free, advertising. This can be very subtle or not subtle at all, as in this particular case. As the businessman in question is learning, however, this can be a double edged sword, and the same "free" media can easily inflict as much damage on one's reputation, often very quickly, as much as months of carefully staged posts can be useful or appear to be so."

i dont particularly enjoy seeing posts like: "the flying peanut and the monkey butt are both great bikes. you really cant go wrong with either one you choose. btw, i sell them both and currently have the monkey butt diamante 15% off until the end of the month. just sayin'." but, let the sellers do it at their own risk. they should probably keep in mind that bike forums posts rank very high in google search results.

an informed consensus of opinion doesnt equal dogma.

in other words, if a number of people are independently reporting great experiences with the brompton, then maybe there is something to it.

Even though I've tried a Brompton vs Dahon vs Tern when I was looking for my next folder, I think they where all pretty close in ride performance nothing was really ground breaking for me besides the fold size which I didn't really need at all, I just needed it to fit under my work desk. Long term support was a entirely different matter because I was mostly shopping around at the time and had to do more research than just a test ride.

I actually read this book and found it very interesting on the price of any product affecting the value we hold of items.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predict...e_of_Ownership

Informed and balanced does not equal dogma. .
Sometimes the balance is very skewed and minority voices get drown out or leave.

Take the (out of date) a to b summery that comes up if on google if you do a comparision of folding bikes.

It gives the impression birdies, dahons, mezzo, strida, diblai and even mercs are all pretty hopless.

One example amounst hundreds on the internet.
I have owned 2 bromptons and one merc, and sometimes I have had posters state that I am just critising the brommie as I bought a mezzo as I could not afford a brompton!!
Atb complained that the review of the d9 mentioned brompton more than mezzo!
Balanced consenous "my foot" on the internet generally towards some manufactors offerings. I know these examples are old but it sets the scene.
I know most posters on these forums are pretty reasonable and have awareness of other makes, and much of the tribalism is just good fun.
I was looking at another forum the other day and people were slating the carbonfibre ori, saying they would sooner have the mainstream dahon/ tern equiverlent. None of the posters, as far as I could tell had riden either bike, and no one commented on the fact the ori was serveral pounds lighter

Its sometimes easier to go with the flow I guess.

The reason there's no Brompton killer out there is that most are in it for a fast buck. Andrew Ritchey has been building the same bike for over 20 years changing very little and it's that stability people are looking for in any bicycle. The only way the Brompton bike will be killed is if gets sold to Pacific bikes and you find them at at Walmart for $149.00 dollars.

wow. thanks. the book looks very interesting.

So the reason some peopel hate to hear about R20`s or similar bikes can be really good bikes is they are not expensive enough or they do not own one (or sell them)..

The human mind plays a lot of funny things on you, also what you are asking about is very close to truth and explained in chapter 10. It was a really good read! And the writer did experiments on thousands of people not 10 or 20.

Is it a fact?

If you read the forum you`d know.

Pricing Higher, for Prestige Imaging is very Profitable, particularly If you play Offshore-Tax Shelter games,
with those Profits.
*cough (Apple) cough*

Is ist a fact? :lol:

Apple and Brompton approach to products is very similar. Proprietary, focus on a small number of models, attention to details, healthy margins, good user experience out of the box, good after-sale support and plenty of faithful fans.

This results in healthy businesses but limits the potential market share (compare Brompton vs. Dahon, iPhone vs. Android, Mac OS vs. Windows).

Brompton 'killer' may be Dahon itself, but not any specific model.

As for Apple's profits, I am happy for Apple's shareholders.

Meh. Me,I'm just sorry I sold the Mezzo and kept the Brompton. I Brompton folds so much easier and smaller,but the Mezzo was a way better bike.

So sell the Brompton and buy a Mezzo.

as always, it depends on what you are looking for in a bike. when you say the brompton "folds so much easier and smaller" but then go on to say the mezzo was a better bike, it seems like a contradiction.

awhile back, i had a mezzo d10 for 2 weeks on my nyc commute. its a nice bike to be sure, but if you need to fold and unfold it 3 times in the course of a day's multi-modal trip, it sucks.

for me, i dont use a folding bike because it fits in my car (i dont own one), and i don't use a folding bike because i have a small apartment (i live in a 1500 sqft room in a former garment factory). i use a folding bike to enhance my mobility in a dense urban environment that includes flights of stairs, crowded subways, buses, trains, and taxis. and if i want to ride to Flushing from Williamsburg on a sunday afternoon for dim sum, a mezzo d10 or a birdy is not going to be any faster or better for me than the brompton s6l with wide range hub that i am currently using.

i've owned quite a few folding bikes and ridden even more. however, no other bike has felt like an extension of my own body the way the brompton does. using a brompton to explore nyc has completely changed my relationship with city.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8TLppeS.jpg[/IMG]

I too loved that design... very typically Italian of that era.

As for the Brompton, I regard it highly as one of the best folding bike designs ever for it's intended purpose... a quick folding and reliable bike for the multi-modal commuter, someone who lives where public transportation is a viable alternative and can benefit from a bike with a quick and elegant fold yet also ride it for great distances, year after year. At the other end of the spectrum is a Bike Friday... not an elegant fold but the roots of it's design (the NWT) is based on the simple concept of a custom made touring bike with geometry to suit the rider and with small wheels that is packable and fits into checked-in luggage... not the quickest and nicest fold but well enough to serve the tourist looking to ship their bike without having to pay extra fees for shipping a "full sized" bicycle.

IMHO all other offerings fit somewhere in between. (How's that for ruffling feathers around here?)

"while back, i had a mezzo d10 for 2 weeks on my nyc commute. its a nice bike to be sure, but if you need to fold and unfold it 3 times in the course of a day's multi-modal trip, it sucks".

Pardon !
It folds quicker as its got self locking hinges.
To dissmiss a mezzo as a difficult(?), or slow(?) Fold is really odd to say the least.
You talk like they are completely different beasts.

If the Mezzo had a rear suspension option I'd probably get one.
My views on folding bikes haven't changed in a couple of years, there remains the potential to design a bike that folds like a Brompton but has better riding characteristics; the best of all worlds. The Brompton stem design (or lack of) is something of a joke; the wedge/expander system might support a stem the height of the S variety but anything longer and flex becomes an issue. I can envisage a design that eliminates the flex felt in the handlebars whilst also better absorbing vibrations coming through the front wheel and fork. Somehow markets don't seem to be pushing folding bike design to where an enthusiast with the access to the right tools would take it.

As Brompton owner and an Apple fanboy with a 13' MacBookPro, 15' Retina MacBookPro, MacMini, iPod, iPad & iPhone I can certainly attest to the superb customer service that these companies provide. Other folding bike brands that look after their customers are Bike Friday and Moulton. They also have thriving owners clubs with a good level of interaction between owners and the makers themselves who are generally very enthusiastic about their products... this all adds to the enjoyment of ownership.

I fold / unfold my lightweight S-Type Brompton at least 8 times a day... I doubt that I would want to do that with any other bike, except maybe the Bike Friday Tikit. The Brompton seems to be the only bike that owners instinctively fold up regardless and it is the only bike that will fit between the back-to-back seats on a lot of trains.... by contrast just watch how many Dahon owners fold their bikes on arrival at the train station platform? Yeah, very few from my observations. The Brompton works perfectly for my needs.

Shhh, don't say it too loud or too often. ;-)