Grrrr! This s-s-s-s-s-lllooowwww forum is doing the double-posting thing again. Sorry for the duplicate

Really? Ok, I was just taking a stab at it; I honestly don't recall seeing people riding them around before the 80's, and especially into the 90's. But this brings up a an interesting point:

Do you, or even anyone you know, ride an aluminum bike from before the 1980's? If not, would you at least agree that older steel frames are going to be trusted more than older aluminum frames, just because there's so many of them out there? Steel is known, and trusted. Lots of people are out there riding on old steel bikes. Aluminum? Maybe it'd last pretty much as long as steel, but how many old aluminum frames are out there?

If you were going to buy an old project bike for $25 or $50, and there were both steel and aluminum versions available, would you tend to trust one more than the other? Maybe they'd be equally as good, but my bias would probably lean me towards the steel frame, if for no other reason that steel is a known quantity.

While I too am tired of these arguments, I take offence to your remarks. I own a 30+ year old folding bike frame and I can still manage to stay up with my brother who rides an 18 pound racing machine. I purchased it because of its reputation as a good folding frame for heavy riders and the low official weight limits that so many other folders have. As I said before, buy what material, and what age frame you like according to your own personal tastes and needs.

One more thing...I think people who have to resort to calling people names because they can't come up with an intelligent response are the real morons, moron!!!

juan162

eeks. didn't mean to revive an old debate. i was really hoping on thoughts more specific to steel vs. aluminum in a swift bike, given its particular geometry and other characteristics.

Hey, sometimes we gotta be honest. But take note that I DIDNT call any specific person a "moron", so that isn't namecalling.

The part where the condition of a frame 20-30-40-50 years from now is presented as if it's somehow a valid issue in the "frame wars". Its a bogus arguement, because the frame is long beyond its intended lifetime by then. A bike is a tool - a cheap tool - not a lifetime investment. If a tool is useful in 40 years, that's great. However, you expect to buy a better one in the future anyway so it doesn't matter.

I am not saying anything about people who CHOOSE to build up old frames that happen to suit their fancy, because I am one of them.

Gee, that seems pretty similiar to what I wrote above:
It is a valid issue in the "frame wars" if you specifically intend to buy a bike that can last, and last, and last. One which may not only service you, but your children or nieces/nephews a full generation from now.

Did you even read what I wrote before laying into me with hyperbole about ridiculous arguments, your Chewbacca Defense, and being a moron if someone is interested in an older bike?

I'm also not certain that we can infer an intended product lifespan, when both steel and aluminum Swifts are sold with a lifetime frame warrantee.

You're right, we should be honest. You should realize that YOU JUST CALLED A GROUP OF PEOPLE MORONS for essentially having a different opinion than you, MORON!!! Note that I fully take responsibility for what I write
and am not trying to back pedal, like some moron would do.

I apologize to all Swift enthusiasts...this will be my last reply concerning this matter and I apologize for taking over the thread.

juan162

Out of curiosity, what is the ownership split on the forum between aluminum and steel Swifts?

My Swift, recently bought used, is steel. It's on the stand now, being rebuilt. I have not ridden an alum Swift.

I emailed Peter Reich of swiftfolders and I have not received a reply yet. I left him a voicemail as well. Is he still around? How long does he take to respond, generally? I would like to get a swift frameset. Anyone else sells Alu frameset beside Peter?

Patience, patience... Did I say earlier he's very busy? If not, let me say: Peter is very, very busy! But he has always replied (to me) eventually, although it can take anywhere from 3 days to a week.

If you check out the contacts page at www.swiftfolder.com, you will see that there's a west coast contact too, at EFN. The link is a little outdated, but you can see their website here: http://www.efn.org/~cat/
I seem to recall someone else writing they had trouble getting hold of Human Powered Machines, but as I haven't tried myself that is only hearsay ;)

Patience, & good luck!

Maunkea- out of curiosity, where were you able to pick up a used swift from? I have never seen a swift for sale used anywhere. I would love to get a hold of one from the used market.

BBPhil, a friend of a friend... "you like that kid's bike, eh?" (looking a my DT) "Yeah." "You know who has one exactly like that he wants to sell..." So.... it wasn't a DT, it was a steel Swift. Sort of like lightening striking you, I guess, or your petition of certiorari to the Supreme Court being accepted.

My experience with info@swiftfolder.com:

First email asking to buy a Swift with Schlumpf crank, sent 3 months ago. No reply.

Second email asking to buy a frame set, sent 2 weeks ago. UPDATED: Reply after 2 weeks.

haha, maunakea, you sly dog.... doling it out to us in dribs and drabs...ahha...way to score!! let's have some 'before' pics!!

Bruce

pix, pix, I know they are somewhere. where's the wizard's wand when I need it.

Bruce, Wav, and James, do you think there's enough included angle in the chainline for a triple chain ring on a Swift? BTW, to desorb yet another drab, the cogset on my rebuilt Swift is Capreo, Velocity rims beautifully built up by J. Guerlan. Shimano 105 hub on the front.

Who cares about included chain angles?? let's see this baby!!.. are you going custom paint? 'Island colors'? Come on, wave the wand! ... and you already know what I think... go Schlumpf ...

Bruce

The front chainline on a stock Xootr (well, at least mine) is 44mm...that's with a 1mm chainring spacer installed between the chainring and spider. Bottom bracket spindle is 116mm (I've since replaced mine with a 115mm, as I can't seem to find a 116mm anywhere, so my new chainline is 43mm). According to Sheldon's site, a Shimano road triple has a chainline of 45mm measured to the center chainwheel. You could probably get a triple to fit if you played around with bottom bracket spindle lengths.

Peter is quite busy. While his response is never immediate, he has always gotten back to me. Perhaps you should simply try to call him again. I was able to reach him by calling on a Thursday morning/afternoon.

He was at the folder fest in Philadelphia last weekend.

Onto a different topic ... he did say that a new steel swift folder is in the works. (Confirming an earlier post)

-G

Good news! I called Peter yesterday and he picked up the phone. It was 6pm my time and 9pm his, and I was a little embarassed since I was calling him so late. He was still working and he took the time to answer all my questions. He was very patient, knowledgeable and down to earth. Here is some exiciting news (I aplogise if someone posted this earlier):

- a new steel frame is going to be available in about 3 months. It will be a little more compact fold. He explained that the top/main tube and seat tube intersection has been reworked, and as a result the frame fits into a standard suitcase or something. I am a little sketchy on the details, and please do not bombard him with questions as a result of my post. Frame is about the same weight as the old steel one (maybe a tad lighter), but still about 2lb heavier than Alu one.

- he is out of alu frames at the moment, and new ones are expected in about 2 months. Black and bare frames (for custom paint) will be available.

Has anyone attempted to take off the decals on xootr frame? Any ideas?

Did someone say new steel frame Swift? Why am I all of a sudden hoping that my new office location won't have any place to lock up a bike?

Bruce, now the duck has dropped from the ceiling and is quacking "Schlumpf! Schlumpf! Schlumpf!" Groucho says it's the magic word.

The only thing detering me from the Schlumpf is I would get the overdrive version, and this bike is going to see the Dolomites. I would be worried about the granny end of gear inches, thus my interest in a triple crankset.

Re: decals. As many motorcyclists know, heat gun on low, or hair dryer on high, careful heating on one end of the decal, lift that end of the decal off the frame, and work the heat and lifting to the other end of the decal. Beware of nearby plastics. Wear kitchen gloves.

Nice! A triple will be cool... don't forget, with a 9/26 Capreo and a SpeedDrive 1.65 overdrive with 38t chainwheel on 490mm tires will net you 28 to 134 gear inches... food for thought just incase the triple idea falls thru for any reason...I can't imagine a stud like you going much lower than 28... bye the bye, have you heard about a delivery on the Cadenza, or have you switched tracks... oh yes ... pics please!

Bruce

In his presentation at Trophy's Round-Up in Philly, Peter mentioned the new steel version. The goal was to change the geometry to get it to fit in the Samsonite Oyster suitcase.

Bruce, Amazon (the free shipping people ... important to the Islands) pushed the Cadenza delivery date back a month to mid-July. I don't really need the Cadenza until my Nov. trip to Tokyo, when it will become the new corporate vehicle for eastern Japan.

I have an email in to Steve K. at Xootr asking about triples on Swifts. I think it will work with a braze-on FD hanger. Yet, it's still 50/50 between a triple and the Schlumpf. If the Schlumpf didn't need the custom milling on the BB, I wouldn't hesitate.

UPDATE: Steve K. says he knows of no triples on Swifts, but there are a few with Schlumpfs installed.

I got a reply email from Peter at SFldr: "No bare frames of any kind available. Check back in a few months."