Thanks. I don't know what kind of riding I will do until I start doing it, I'm afraid. Finding grocery stores and hypermarkets in strange ports and humping supplies back to the boat will be one task. I guess I really made a firm decision to finally make some space for folding bikes on board in Tregueir in N Brittany last month, while carrying 30 kilos of supplies 5 or 6 miles by hand . . .

Then, if I have bikes on board, I assume that I will take advantage of that fact to go riding in the different places we reach while cruising. The better the bikes, the further afield we'll go. On our cruise last month, we spent several days in St. Malo, and took trains and busses to get to Mt. St. Michel -- what a PITA. It would have been so much nicer to bicycle there, and take in the countryside at the same time.

I once rode a bicycle from Germany over the Alps to Yugoslavia, where I got arrested for camping out of season . . . but that's another story. That was decades ago and I have no illusions about riding such distances on a folding bike. But I like to ride. Cruising on a sailboat is all about exploring new places, and bikes will add a whole new dimension to that.

No, I don't need mountain bike ability, and I probably don't need the suspension of the Jetstream. I'm actually kind of leering at the Tern Verge 11i now -- the internal hub gears look like a big advantage on a boat, and it looks like a cut above the Dahons in terms of quality. Expensive, though.

I'm starting to get an idea now about the differences between 16" and 20" folders. I guess the second one should be a 16" considering my space problems.

Here's a sailor, and experienced cyclist from my parts who raves about his Dahon Jetstream:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.p...6&postcount=33

He keeps it on a Contessa 26 (!), so it has raised my hopes that something like this will not be too bulky for my use . . .

He thinks Bromptons are overpriced, he must have a yacht that never needs repairs.

[I have not price shopped for Volvo marine Diesel engine repairs to throw around numbers,
or a 5 gallon bucket of antifouling bottom paint, for comparison]




do note both 16 & 20" wheel types ..
there are bigger rim skinny tire (349, 451 ) higher pressure tires

And smaller rim wider tire options [305, 406] lower pressure, (maybe more comfortable)

for both categories .. frames are built around the wheel design...

:p You, sir, are clearly not a yachtsman. It is precisely because of the cost of antifoul and diesel engine repairs (and etc. etc. etc. etc.) that we pinch every penny we can in every other area. 350 pounds (about $500) for a different anchor swivel? No problem! 10,000 pounds ($16,000) for a new sail? Ditto! 600 pounds ($950) to have your boat lifted out so you can work on the propeller? Business as usual. 1000 pounds for a bike??!! Yikes!!!! Can I save 200 pounds by buying off EBay? ;)

well the contessa is a 32 .. :-) just a tiny bit bigger than the 26... both unbelievable cool retro british boats with old fashioned values, like all boats they need repairs and tlc to keep them alive and well.....
Let me say this, a Contessa owner would be my first thought of being a Brommy owner.... lol.
Some of these have sailed around the world a couple times, one of them actually against the prevailing winds....

-----------

Listen Dirk .. you want a Jetstream so go for it, its a nice bike .... no need to find excuses, why you want one ... :-)
GO for it

thor

Ahhh guys!?!

Get this bike. Fits in a pocket and if it rusts, you just buy another.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8y0xpkdaNY

Buy it from Thor. But don't forget to buy one of this too as your backup! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8y0xpkdaNY :thumb:

Looks like Dirk is in Europe .... freight would be a killer....
sometimes I do give advice even if I cant make a buck ..lol
Or talk myself out of a deal as well ..lol

I did a Navy hitch, taxpayers funded those.
16 Polaris Nuclear warhead ICBM, and a Nuclear powerplant.. Submarine.

Nicked Bromptons and such probably surface on ebay uk..

I leave the marine stuff to the fishermen, bar pilots and coasties, now ..
most of the time they come back.

Sometimes they wash up on the beach..

Going to sea at taxpayer expense is definitely the rational way to do it! :thumb:

OK, so, I've come to the following conclusions:

1. I want a 20" folder, at least one of them. Not a 16".

2. I want a decent range of gears so that I can do some road riding.

3. I want the bike to be reasonably stiff -- I might ride it with cleats.

4. I want a folding trailer to carry stuff back to the boat with.

As to specific bikes, I think I've narrowed it down to Dahon Jetstream or Tern Verge S11i.

The Jetstream is simply cool, and I think my attraction to it might not be entirely rational. I don't know if I need the suspension, but it seems to me that it couldn't be a bad thing on a bike with small wheels. Downside is derailleur gears versus hub - messy and vulnerable.

An alternative is the much cheaper Dahon Vitesse, which seems to be nearly the same thing but without the suspension. There is a version with hub gears which I can buy new from Halfords for 530 pounds (about $800). Might be a good, practical solution.

The Tern Verge S11i looks like an altogether superior bike, with a wide range 11 speed hub gear. Just without the suspension of the Jetstream. And the big downside -- costs $2,000 and I don't see it on EBay anywhere.

Anybody think I should be considering anything else? See any mistakes in my reasoning? Cheers.

Do you have the possibility to try the bikes before buying? Now I don't know exactly how the Jetstream and the Verge fold but having the handlebars inbetween the wheels or outside makes them differ in carrying and ease of folding.
I only have one question: why not a Birdy? :)

I would go for the Jetstream seemingly because the suspension does help A LOT in terms of comfort,so you can go off-road if you wish. I have a Dahon Mu SL equipped with a Pantour front suspension and a Thudbuster rear with Big Apple tires and I routinely take it off-road. I'm amazed the paired spoked Kinectix Pro wheels still hold!



Hope this helps.

So after some reflection and a lot of surfing, I am leaning towards the Jetstream. The frame looks much more substantial than the others -- beefy and stiff, with two braces to the seat post. Don't know if looks are deceiving, but the frame of the Jetstream really looks the business.

The suspension looks like a real advantage using questionable roads in unknown and new places.

And the Jetstream (at least, the 8-speed version) is considerably cheaper than the less beefy Tern.

I can buy a new Jetstream P8 for 45 000 rubles here in Moscow (that's about $1 400). There is also a Jetstream EX on sale for about 70 000 (about $2200). I can't quite see why the EX should be nearly double the cost -- the difference as far as I can see is just 27 speeds instead of 8 (a good thing, but costing so much?!) and hydraulic disc brakes (surely gilding the lily).

I can't find any Jetstream in the UK so far. A used P8 was just sold in the UK EBay for close to what I would pay for it new in Moscow (weird).

Still looking, and still grateful for any comments. Will look at the Birdy now too.

Cleats are part of a cleat+pedal system. The folding/removable pedals on folding bikes are a significant feature in aiding the collapsed bike achieve its smallest form factor. The MKS Ezy family of quick disconnect pedals offer interchangeability of platform, traditional cage and 'clipless' models. These will retrofit onto any bike we've talked about here.

I've long admired the Jetstream and wondered if it could serve as a poor-man's Moulton. In the 10+ years of the dual suspension Jetstream model, I've never once heard its over-the-road suspension action compared/contrasted to an Alex Moulton - only discussed/debated as a small wheel off-roadbike.

The Birdy might show up some competition (but I can't guarantee it), I really liked the ride but for me the fold was more important and that's why I went with a Brompton instead. Here is their website (Riese und Müller's, they who makes the Birdy): http://en.r-m.de/folding-bikes/

20" Diblasi in stainless steel and an IHG ? with detachable MKS or wellgo pedals.
MKS cleats work with shimano or MKS peddles.
So just swop over the cleats to MKS on our spd shoes if you have some.

Ach ja! Ein Birdy Faltrad! Das ist ja wunderbar!

The base model can be had for about 900 pounds, similar to the cost of the Jetstream and apparently with a similar spec. Might be a really good option. Hmmm.

I'm really digging the Birdy, which seems to be much the same idea as the Jetstream, at similar cost (about 1000 to 1200 pounds for a 27 speed version with regular brakes -- better spec than the Jetstream P8).

Both of these bikes are praised for being capable of good, hard, long rides, keeping up with normal road bikes. I like that.

The Birdy has an additional advantage -- no hinge. So the frame is supposed to be stiffer.

The suspension is supposed to be a very good thing -- a la Alex Moulton.

Hmm.

There's even a Birdy with 8 speed derailleur gears for 880 pounds -- comparable spec to the Jetstream for 120 pounds less -- http://www.cycle-heaven.co.uk/bikes/...y-world-sport/

For the Birdy: no frame hinge; more compact due to 18" wheels.
For the Jetstream: 20" wheels -- will ride better?

Is the Birdy better quality than the Jetstream? What do you guys think?

My guess is that Birdy has a better frame, partly because it doesn't bend in half. Although the drawback is that tyres and such is more unusual in 18" size, but as long as you have atleast one tube and maybe a folding tyre with you that shouldn't be a problem.

The Birdy has a very good reputation.. I have one (a Birdy Green 8spd der) and had a Birdy Silver with a Dual Drive that I sold, and there are other members on this board that have them .. the Birdy wheel (ERTO 355mm) size is much closer in size to Brompton and Tikit (ERTO 349mm) in the 16" category, than they are to the Jetstream (ERTO 406mm) 20" category.. the AM Moultons run ERTO 369mm wheels and are considered 17" wheels.. I also have a Jetstream XP .. the Birdy front suspension is designed much like the Moulton suspension in that it is soft and reacts quickly to road surface.. the Jetstream has a much harder front suspension with more stiction and reacts mainly to large obstructions.. the Jetstream is a larger, less compact fold .. the Jetstream EX has a much more expensive front suspension and an industry standard 100mm front hub and disc brakes .. it is also much more expensive than the standard Jetstream.. my Jetstream XP is a less twitchy experience at speed .. there are plenty of tires available in 355 .. I run Kojaks on my Birdy and Greenspeed Scorchers on my Jetstream... when I go on my week long camping trip, I always pack the Birdy as space is a real consideration..

You are a wealth of relevant knowledge -- thank you!!

What you right from direct experience kind of corresponds to what I was assuming. Birdy is a bit of a contradiction -- stiffer frame, better suspension than the Jetstream, but tiny wheels make the ride a bit twitchy, something which doesn't sound too good if I decide to go out and knock off 100 miles some day.

Jetstream better stability but less compliant suspension, less rigid frame.

Hmmmmm.

Well, I bought last night on Fleabay a vintage Dahon folder, apparently in mint condition with racks, bags, lights, little used by a fellow sailor -- for less than $100! This will be just the thing for just running to the shop or the pub, or for a guest to ride with me sometimes. So this leaves me with a bit more cash for the other bike.

There's a mint Dahon Vitesse 7HG or whatever it is with an internal hub -- 6 months old -- for 300 pounds including racks, bags, locks, helmet, etc. So if I buy that, I will have solved my whole task for about $600 all in including accessories. It's always nice to save money.

But I still have a hankering now to have a good bike again -- haven't had a really good bike in decades -- something which would inspire me to stretch my legs a bit and get out on the road. I never dreamed that a folding bike could be used for longer-distance touring, until I started this research.

So I could buy a Jetstream P8 -- found a mint one I can probably get for $1000 or so. Or I could buy a brand new Birdy with 8 speed derailleur for 880 pounds whcih is about $1400.

On the other hand, neither of these has the gear range you would want for touring. Hmmm. I guess I could put an Alfine hub in either of those two -- build a new rear wheel to accomodate it. Then I have the additional advantage of internal hub, which I think is a big plus for folders, and for the marine environment. And 400% gear range.

Or try to buy a Birdy with touring crank (or maybe add one). Or maybe try to find a Jetstream EX.

There's a Birdy on the Flea with the Rohloff hub -- $3000, but I might stretch to that kind of expenditure since I saved so much on the second bike.

Decisions, decisions . . .

It would seem that you dont know what you need and you dont know what you want, but at the same time your proposed budget is ever escalating !

I'd be inclined to pootle around on your vintage Dahon for a while and see how things shape up, in the mean time maybe get around some bike shops when the opportunity arises and try out the various other makes /models available.

I bought a Jetstream P8 about a year ago, mainly because it seemed the best available all rounder for the price, and folded it fitted into the bottom of my wardrobe and the boot of my car. Shortly after I took it to Fudges in London and had them fit the Alfine 11 speed, a superb hub, but maybe a bit of overkill, if i was to do it again I would probably opt for the cheaper 8 speed.

You should be aware that the early Dahons are heavy and are generally considered to be "interesting" clunkers, the Vitesse on the other hand is a very nice ride.