Fair enough!

I do know what I want to use the bike for -- that knowledge has come from this discussion and my reading the last few days -- I want something I can ride in cleats and stretch my legs on. I found out I want this simply because I found out that this is even possible in a folding bike -- something I did not know before :)

And I think my search is over! I found a brand new 2011 Jetstream EX at a knock-down price -- bike shop out of business liquidation. Less than the price of a new Jetstream P8!!

I think the Jetstream will be good for me -- stability is important and comments in many places about the Birdy shimmying are worrying. I'm sure I'll feel much better on 20" wheels rather than the tiny Birdy wheels. Yeah, I know, the frame isn't as stiff as the Birdy's, and it won't pack as small. But the EX has got the upgraded suspension, disk brakes (don't need em, but nice anyway!!), and super-wide gear range with 27 speeds (combination hub gear and derailleur). Yeah, I know, the derailleur is a drawback in a folding bike, but none of the bikes I looked at had hub gears other than the Vitesse, and the Vitesse doesn't seem like good choice for wider-ranging touring.

So we'll see. If it works out, I've nicely solved my task to acquire two folders for the boat, at far under my soft budget of $2000. If the old clunker is unsatisfactory, I can sell it on and buy a Vitesse for the second bike and STILL not bust my budget :)

Thanks everyone for all the advice. I'll review both bikes after I've received them and tried them out.

Both Birie and jetstrean are lovely bikes.
Jetstream best ride, but not by much.
Birdie wheels not much smaller than the jetstream in reality.
However, the brake and gear cables on the birdie might get a very hard life in folding compaired to the jetstream due to the folding action. This might get iritating if the birdies longer cables give more agro. The jet stream is easier to buy tires and wheels for. The jetstream wheels can be taken off to become more compact.

Sounds like you did well, but I recomemd tring bikes before committing any cash.

I'd scoop that up in a big hurry .. Mulleady on this board has/had one with the red accents .. there is a guy called Foldsinhalf on the Dahon board who takes his EX mountain riding to some amazing places .. I think he writes/photos for moutain bike magazines .. anyway.. that's a lot of bike for the dough... but it's no lightweight folder :)

Yes, I was much inspired by the Folds-In-Half guy's blog. He rides the living $h*t out of that Jetstream -- far tougher riding than I will ever do. I figured if he is happy with it for that kind of usage, then it will be much more than adequate for me.

I know it doesn't fold as small as Birdies or 16"-ers like Bromptons, but why do you say it's "no lightweight"? 11.7 kilograms -- slightly lighter than a 6-speed Brompton.

Now I'm going to need pedals for it -- does anyone know whether there is a folding or detachable pedal which will take cleats?

Weigh it ready to ride on an accurate hanging scale and get back to me.. :) .. either MKS or Wellgo have removable pedal systems that offer platform as well as cleated options.. I have both systems and a variety of pedals including cleats.. the MKS are more expensive and better made, but the Wellgo units work well and I've yet to have a problem with either.. the Wellgo uses SPD standard cleats .. the MKS are proprietary..

My idea of a lightweight folder may differ from yours.. I would consider my 9spd Dahon Helios XX (at under 17lbs) to be a lightweight folder, or even a 20/21 lb Xootr Swift or Mu SL ... but I wouldn't take a lightweight folder into some of the territory I've seen the EX go.. there are tradeoffs to be sure..

I didn't know folding bikes existed that light - wow.

When I was building up a fast touring bike about 30 years ago (actually, 32 years ago), we considered anything under 30 pounds to be super light. I spent about $2,000 (in 1980 dollars!) for a Trek Reynolds 531 frame, Dura Ace gears and brakes, etc. I guess times have changed!

But yes -- although others have commented that I don't know what i want, I definitely don't want a slim commuter bike -- I want to put some miles on on the open road, and maybe some of those roads won't be too smooth. Possibly dragging loads. I need something fast, stiff, heavy duty. I think the Jetstream should fit the bill -- if not, I'll just sell the front forks :)

One big downside to the Jetstream is that it will be attractive to thieves. :( I'm going to need recommendations for a good lock . . .

It's funny that just a few years back, I was debating which Dahon I should buy. I had both the Jetstream and Mu SL side by side and test rode them both at the store. I eventually settled on the Mu SL, but then I now have accessories that basically turned my Mu SL into a Jetstream. The Mu SL in Jetsream mode (with Big Apples, Thudbuster and Pantour hub) 90% of the time, say probably 95%. This year, I toured with my Mu SL aka Jetstream lite using either a Burley Travoy or my new bought Maya Cycle single wheel trailer. It's no longer light weight, but can go to places where the original Mu SL would beat the crap out of me! People were amazed I rode a folder towing a single wheel trailer in rough single track. That's what you will find with your Jetstream. I see no point in choosing a light folding bike anymore, because where I go for vacations these days, I can easily rent a Trek Madone 5.2 or a Specialized Ruby class carbon bikes and be off riding fast with the boys thanks to Triathlon. If I can't rent one decently, my Mu SL will go through a slim diet and be back to where it was as I had done with it last year to Arizona.

The Jetstream EX is a hot seller. This year, my big Dahon dealer somehow managed to had them in stock and I was thinking about getting them as I don't feel all too easy using the Mu SL with paired spoked wheels mountain biking (though it seemed to hold up ok). Sadly, they were sold so quick I didn't even had the chance to think! On buy and sell and craigslist, the Jetstream usually get sold quickly too. Don't think Dirkhead, just go ahead and BUY! You're way over thinking this!

All Dahon bikes and all bikes in general are attractive to thieves. If you want to lock up, get a secure lock. But that depends upon where you are. Some areas don't need locks, but some need something like a Kryptonite New York as the bare minimum.

TiGr!

I fold my Mariner in half, and run the TiGr through wheels and frame. Below is the TiGr in carry mode, lashed to the frame beam. Handy. Light. Secure.

http://p6.hostingprod.com/@chaadthom...tigr_dahon.jpg

I have an armored cable lock, I put it in my touring bag, or hang it from my M bars.

though the Abus steel-O-chain, hangs better.. I have that mostly on my bike friday FWIW.

The TiGr looks very good! I'll try to get my hands on one of them. And of course I'll use the clunker if I'm going somewhere where I have to leave the bike somewhere for a long time.

It just ocurred to me that I can't mount a regular rear rack on a bike with a suspension! Argh! Stupid me! I was really counting on being able to put panniers on for touring or hauling moderate amounts of groceries. I see that there are racks which move with the suspension, but this is bogus -- unsprung weight -- will ruin the handling. I guess it's going to be a bike trailer and backpack -- maybe I can find some kind of handlebar bag at least for small loads . . .

The Jetstream EX I bought is in fact not a 2011, it's a 2009 model so doesn't have the disk brakes. But it does have the German A Kilo forks -- which cost 900 euros!! I only paid slightly more than that for the entire bike! This bike has some awesome components -- the Kinetix Pro rims, American Classic Pro hub, Syntace VRO forged stem, the good headset (Fusion XP+), SRAM carbon derailleur . . . this is going to be fun. I haven't had a really good bike in a long time.

check out the Xootr Crossrack. It's an aero-located, quick release rack that allows for mounting any standard pannier, or their 30L Crosspack bag. Heck, you can even just hang plastic grocery bags on it! Light. Smart. Cool.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/...d472127094.jpg

"I think I will have to clear some carp out of the lazarette (give away my spare anchor, give away the oversized sausage fender I never use) and keep them there. I hope they will fit there."


Buy a Raleigh 20 and it can double as a spare boat anchor! Just kidding. Seriously if weight is not a problem you won't be carrying this bike very far, you can get away with an old steel folding bike. Spray the inside of the tubes with oil or frame saver. You might look for at the Swift folder if shopping for a new bike. It doesn't fold as small as the others but it opens and closes very quickly. It is fairly light.


I have a day sailer ( a BB Dragon ) so I haven't had the need to bring my bike aboard (yet)...

A "luggage truss" might be an option if the Jetstream has a mounting block on the head tube. See:
http://www.thorusa.com/accessories/baskets.htm

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

Congratulations on probably a very good choice. :D I hope you will enjoy your new ride!

You finally bought the EX -- good for you Dirkhead. :thumb: Made me jealous.:p

Well, don't call yourself stupid that you can't haul stuff. Have you considered a trailer because that will not ruin your full suspension at all. Handling is much superb without panniers. In fact, it's so good I've got 2 trailers for 2 different jobs. My Burley Travoy 2 wheel trailer and my newly acquired Maya Cycle single wheel trailer. The Travoy would probably be good for your application seemingly because it can fold into the size of a briefcase. The Maya Cycle trailer is a little bit chubbier, but shorter than a BOB Yak and works really well in tight single track where the Jetstream EX shines. That does not mean the Travoy can't be taken off-road -- just that you need to take care of not hitting too many boulder sized rocks or it can tip over. These 2 trailers do not effect handling when you loaded it up with stuff. I'll post photos so you know how they would look on a folding bike.

For small loads, you can buy trunk bags from Vaude or Axiom that mounts on your seatpost -- I have that too on my Dahon Mu SL. Typically, I would bring the rear trunk bag and tow a trailer for camping which I had done in the spring. Unhook the trailer and put on the trunk bag and I can tour around town on a bare bike. Makes a heck of a big difference not dealing with racks, though I do have a front rack attached to the Mu SL.

What bike is that? A moulton?

Yes, a TSR model I think, but it's not mine; just a pic I pulled off the web.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3130/...d472127094.jpg


That was one of mine .. a Moulton TSR-27 .. the Crossrack moves around some among my bikes .. I use it mostly on a Birdy because rack and bag options are more limited than on the Moultons..

Or use a saddle bag (examples). Saddle bags have been working pretty well for cyclists for the last 120 years.

Dirkhead,

Here are the photos of the Mu SL towing a Burley Travoy or the Maya Cycle.

http://s13.postimage.org/c0xkssyab/DSCN4244.jpg

http://s13.postimage.org/sh61cj7gz/DSCN4305.jpg

Now, pick your poison!

Thanks for all the excellent advice! I am definitely in the market for a Burley Travoy - folding, just the thing for hauling provisions for a hungry crew. But why is everything twice as expensive in the UK? Maybe pick one up when Im next in the States.

Ditto for the Tigr lock - apparently you can only order it online from the manufacturer - $200. If you want it in the UK, add $50 shipping. Then when it gets here, add duty and 19% VAT. Christ. . . I guess Kryptonite it is. . .

Update:

Well, I received my Jetstream EX :)

It was not too well packed, with some scratches, but considering I paid what would have been a good price for a used one, this does not bother me.

I spent a couple of hours putting it together, getting tires and shocks pumped up, adjusting the derailleur, figuring out how to unfold it, etc.

Then I took it out for an approximately 10 mile test ride. First impressions:

1. Wow, this is really a nice piece of gear. It's gorgeous - every detail.

2. It rides like stink. I really didn't imagine a folding, small-wheel bike could ride like this. I think I'm actually faster than on my regular bike, other than downhill (more about that further).

3. It's very stiff and efficient -- doesn't seem any less stiff than my regular bike, and maybe even more so -- something which amazes me, considering it's a folding bike.

4. The suspension is amazing -- a totally different kind of ride than what I'm used to.

5. The riding position is better than my regular bike. I am completely happy. And I haven't even started to play with the fancy articulating stem yet!

6. It doesn't feel significantly less stable than my regular bike up to at least 20, maybe 25 mph. I hardly notice the small wheels at these speeds except that they are very sensitive to oblique obstructions.

7. BUT -- beyond that, stability disappears fast. At 30 mph, it is slightly terrifying. I will not be doing fast downhills on it.

8. The brakes suck. I don't know if I will ever get around to it, but it would make sense to put in some disk brakes.

9. It doesn't fit in my dinghy very well when not folded. When folded, it's better. Lifting it in and out is awkward. There's quite a risk of dumping it overboard, which would be a real shame. But I think it will stow ok in the lazarette.

10. The lowest gear is not low enough; the highest is much higher than I need, considering the deteriorating stability over 25 mph. A new front chainwheel may be in my future.

10. Man, I need to get in better shape :)

Sorry no photos; I'm on a mobile phone connection. I'll post some bike porn as soon as I have a better connection.
Those were my first impressions.

Nice ride report, congratulations on your purchase!

Pics when you have the chance.

Grats again!

Sounds like you made a pretty good choice!