I've been researching off and on for a few weeks, and very intensely for the past few days. I feel like I should be able to make a decision by this point, but I'm not even close, and as an extreme novice to bicycles, I'm not sure I fully appreciate the value in some of the components that come on these bikes. So here's my dilemma (I apologize in advance, I can already tell this is going to be a long post):

Background:
I'm 6'0", 180ish lbs, and I haven't ridden a (non-stationary) bike in over a decade. I live in Northern Virginia, and the "Silver Line" Metro (train) stations are set to open (relatively) near my home and work within the next couple months. My goal is to sell my car, and commute via bike / train every day, rain or shine (I can telework for snow / hurricanes). I'll have to cover 2 miles from my home to the metro, fold and carry the bike on the train, then cover 1 mile from the metro to my work (twice a day = 6 miles per day). I'm super anal retentive and get annoyed with very minor imperfections (so quality is paramount) e.g., I've purchased a couple brand new sports cars in the past 3 years, and decided to sell them for "minor" things like creaking/rattling noises.

I think I've settled on a full size folding bike, lugging 30 lbs on and off a train doesn't strike me as a major inconvenience, and my home and work are only 1 stop apart (6 miles) and are the last 2 stops on the line (in the current phase) so there shouldn't be an issue of over crowding. The terrain is fairly smooth on my anticipated path (city streets and bike paths), but I'm leaning toward bikes with beefier tires in case of bad weather, bumps, etc.

I'd prefer a bike that's comfortable, as I'm not getting any younger (soft saddle, adjustable handle bars, etc.), with enough gears to get up hills, and pick up speed on the way down. I plan to pack clothes and shower/change at the gym at work, but fenders/mud flaps are a plus. Beyond that, I don't know what I need: disk brakes? top of the line crankset / derailleurs? Am I wasting money for 6 miles a day?

Additionally, being able to attach baskets and such is a huge plus (especially ones that don't hook on the handle bars and make the steering clunky). We have a couple Maltipoo pups, who I'm sure would love to go for a ride around town on the weekends. For example: I think the Terns have a special hookup on the front post (i.e., non-turning part) for this sort of thing.

The Bike's I'm considering and my rationale
The Montagues (Paratrooper or Navigator): I like both of these bikes for different reasons, but I think I've ruled them both out due to having to remove the front wheel (see anal retentive comment above).

Tern Joes (D24 & P24): Both seem to have beefy tires, adjustable stem (aka handle bars for us lay-folk), no fenders (but I assume they can be added for rainy days). The obvious difference in these two bikes is the disk brakes, but there also appears to be differences in the chainset, derailleurs, cassette, shifters, and wheels (source: https://www.thebikelist.co.uk/tern/jo...s/joe-p24-2012) bear in mind these are all just words to me, do these components really justify the $250 price difference?

Dahon Espresso: Seems comparable to the Tern Joe D24 but costs $50 more, is one better than the other? If so, why?

Tern Eclipse P9: This one was recommended to me by a bike shop, and it seems to tick all the boxes, but I'm not sure about the gears. I tested out a 7 gear bike, and the top gear doesn't seem very fast, not sure if this one is better? with a wider range between 1 and 9?

The Brass Tacks
I don't really have a budget. I'd love to keep my purchase under $200, but I'm certain the bike would be a piece of **** that I'd want to drive into a giant trash compactor. I could spend $2k+ but I'm not sure that I need that high end of a bike (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). So my target budget (I guess) is $600 - $1200 based on what I've seen, but this is negotiable if justifiable.

Summary / Conclusion
I'm looking for a daily commuter that I can also take out on weekends (and toss the pups in a basket). I prefer full size bikes (I tried out a bike with 20" wheels and I'm pretty sure it's not for me). I prefer beefier tires, but could probably get by with 700c. Quality and reliability are worth extra money to me. I prefer a comfortable bike but understand that things like saddle and fenders can be upgraded / added later.

So if you have experience with the bikes above, or think I'm overlooking a better option, please enlighten me. Feel free to provide links, etc., I will read them.

Thanks,

John

yes the Terns have the holder for the biologic bracket, add a nice wicker basket from Klickfix and your dogs will feel like heaven being chaufert around.
Yes the extra money for the limited edition ( in USA ) P 24 are well worth it. its a real cool bike with great components.

Fender can be added

Best Thor

Thanks Thor! I'm leaning toward the P24, just wanted to make sure I wasn't buying more than I need. I see your site offers free shipping. Do you test or tune the bikes before shipping? I've read that some of these bikes need a little love out of the box.

I check them before ship them.... you need to put the pedals in as the new carton is not big enough to ship them with pedals attached but otherwise they should arrive ready

I rode a tern p24 (20")a few weeks ago. Lovely bike, great ride, customisable,dauldrive works brillantly, loads of carriers available, cheap compairatively, hinge had been redisned and loooks really strong, a tad heavy is only disadvantage.
I personally see few deal breakers, you can set it up with brifter, with good dahon wheel sets, spare wheels for off road, suspension forks are also available at a push.

Another point. Don't assume all 20" wheeled bikes are the same. I would not dismiss 20" wheeled bikes based on one test ride. Ie a moulton,bike friday ,dahon speed tt (or tern equivoent), are very different from budget folder. 20 inch bikes are very customisable with standard parts and lots of dahon options out there.
20 inch folders are generally fine for pleasure riding. The only time you might prefer a 26" is thick mud or very, very rough off road where only a mbt is ideal.

I'll have to second that. We're not here to convert you, just to point out that folding bikes are as different from each other as are bikes with large wheels. If you dismiss the very good small wheeled bikes, you could be missing out on a bike that is easier to transport than a large wheeled folder yet is still efficient and a lot of fun.

We are also here to point out that folding bikes are like chocolates - one is not enough.

two is a good START ...

the OP is a retailer's wet dream...

John, The Tern Eclipse P9 is ideal for you for what you need and the dealer is correct. The folding size isn't much bigger than my Dahon Mu SL which has 20" wheels. The ride quality is a step above the Dahon Mu SL (now Tern Verge X10/20 or Dahon Vector) or even the P24 and is pretty comfortable and it is fast even with 9 gears. 24" wheels is a good compromise for speed and comfort. Bigger wheels provide less rolling resistance. You can add a basket and fenders onto the Eclipse P9, white fenders even! A friend of mine has the Eclipse P9 and was a former Dahon Mu SL owner and he said, this Eclipse rides faster than the Mu SL. The gearing on the P9 is adequate for city use and the lower gears are good for not so steep hills. And it's got disc brakes so for the price, it ain't a bad deal.

You're quite right; you do not want to lug around a heavier than 30lbs folding bike unless it's got wheels on it to allow to push and treat it as luggage.
You might think it's not a big deal now on the train until you do it day in and day out. Which is why I prefer my Dahon Speed Duo over my Mu SL for train travel because I can fold it and wheel it in.

Depending in which city and state you are in, commuters aren't always very friendly to bike commuters especially on wet days. It's because, they don't want to get their clothes dirty from your dirty chain, wheels etc.. Plus, they are a little less friendly when you sweat and smell like a dead rat especially when the train is packed like sardines. At least I get the evil eyes once in a while in my town, but I just don't give a darn about that.

Enjoy your bike!

I don't mean to be contrary, but I think you need to try out some more 20" folders. I think a larger folder is too large for daily multi-modal commuting and you will regret buying a larger than 20" wheeled bike. The best solution might actually be to get a 16" pure commuting bike and a 24" weekend bike. (If you are car free, it's nice to have two bikes anyway, in case one is in the shop or has a flat in the morning.)

With this in mind, Hefley, have you checked the regulations concerning bike transport on what I assume is the Dulles Metrorail? There may be restrictions on certain types of bikes.

The Tern Eclipse P9 does not fold any larger than a 20" Dahon or Tern bikes. I met this person who upgraded from his own Dahon Mu SL to a Tern Eclipse had exactly the same requirements as the OP. The Eclipse P9 is nicer and much better than I thought. I had my Mu SL when we met at a Bike meetup event and did the comparison. He bought it because it has to fold and not be any larger than a 20" bike to be used in a metro line and has a quick fold which the Eclipse P9 addressed. He wanted some faster than his former Mu and the P9 with the larger wheels using the same gears provides the slightly better comfort than my Mu SL with Big Apples and a Thudbuster ST! I found 16" wheels too rougher on roads compared to riding on 20" or 24" on the P9.

6' w/33" inseam here,no issues riding 16 and 20" wheeled bikes.

That's because you haven't tried it. During rush hour you will not want to be messing with a full size folder. I tried it once on the weekend with one of those Fuji Marlboro folders;wound up giving it to my Dad to ride around the farm. There is also the issue of a station manager giving you crap;they shouldn't,since it's a folder,but they may due to the size. You will prolly be told to take the full size folder on the elevator,while a small wheel folder will probably get by on the escalators.

https://www.wmata.com/getting_around/...guidelines.cfm

Full size folder is technically legal at all times,but as I said,you might get some grief from a station manager. Other riders will def not be happy.

Thanks for the input everyone. I looked at a P24 today, and it could be rolled (while folded) with a bungee cord holding it together (the magnet won't cut it), I think I could live with that bike, but based on your feedback, I definitely need to take a closer look at the P9 (hopefully the local shop has one in stock).

The reason I'm skittish about the 20" is when test riding I went over some loose gravel and I did not feel stable or in control of the bike. I'm sure I'd learn to handle it in time, but being an extreme novice, I guess I'm more comfortable with standard size bikes (like what I grew up riding). I'm sure you're all probably right, and in a year or less I'll looking into a 16" or 20".

Thanks for the input, I'll see if the local shop has it, and try to test it out before making a decision.

Yeah, I'll have to take the elevator, and I may get harassed a bit, but my home and my work are the last 2 stops on the line (Wiehle, Reston & Spring Hill, McLean) and trains come every 6 minutes, so I can't imagine the trains will be too packed. I could be wrong though.

Hi
i am in a similar situation as you were and i value quality than money. So which one you ended up getting....?

I ended up getting the Joe P24. If I had it to do over though, I would probably go with the Montague Paratrooper. I've had nothing but problems with the Tern since I bought it. The first day, the magnet popped off and the breaks rubbed, minor issues, probably due to the local bike shop not putting it together well, took it back and they repaired it, no big deal. 3rd day in (under 40 miles on the bike) the 7th gear on the back shattered into pieces, under light load for no apparent reason. The bike shop repaired it, but now I have a non-OEM gear that isn't nearly as smooth as the other gears. The hinge creaks under load, the bike is really stiff and going over bumps is not fun.

The Paratrooper doesn't fold as nicely (i.e., it's not a 50/50 fold, so you have to pop the front tire off to make it compact). But the hinge placement is smarter, more durable, and it has shock absorbers (the bike paths around me aren't great, lots of bumps).

I may have just had really bad luck with the Tern, but based on my experience, I can't recommend it.

All alloy with straight blade fork,plus the hinges don't help. Playing with your tire pressure should help. Try 50fr/60r and see how that rides.

Don't know if you have tried train yet with your bike


Having a 16" wheeled folder makes the difference between getting a seat or not on a busy train at rush hour.

A full sized folder will usually have to go in the bike section, if a selfish persons not put suitcases there!

With a compact folder one goes on any carriage and places the bike in the luggage compartment. No one can get passed you as you place it there, and you're just another person with luggage.

If you have a full sized folder on a busy train by the time you have found the right carriage and put the bike on any seats will have long gone.

After considering all the disadvantages I highly unlikely to go for a full size folder.
But still there is one question in my mind, Do I have to PEDEL MORE if I have a 20" 7 gear bike compared to a 26" 9 Gear bike? or the gear itself is going to compensate the no of peddling?

On the question of wether you need to peddle more on a 20" v 26"

You will probably find a 20 inch geared bike ok. Unless you want to go over 25 mph a lot or have long downhill sections that you want to peddle.

You may find it is set up to be no different from a 26"
It depends on what the manufacture has done to up gear the 20 " bike if anything.
Internal hub gears up gear really well, or dual drive ,giving the same spread of gears as a 26"
This is the reason IHG are popular. On good 20" folders. Others use a specialist high gear sprocket/hub combination (shimano cespro).

Another possibility is to fit a larger front chain ring, I have a 56 on my 16" bike, and with dual drive mine has the same top gear as a road racing bike.

This. You can basically gear a 20" bike to be very similar to a full size bike.

You can also get a Capreo hub and cassette. I've got a cassette that goes from 9 to 26 teeth. This is very similar to having a 700c tire (full sized road tire - bigger than 26") with a cassette from 12 to 34 teeth.

Added: As of this week, the worlds fastest bicycle (just over 83 mph on flat ground) runs on 20" 406 tires! See! They make you faster!

is there any mid-range folding bike that comes with internal hub gear? I believe its less maintenance than regular gear system. can you name some please.... sorry I am newbie in bikes, so need a lot of help...

I'm a neophyte too Been reading and lurking but I'm also very interested on how gear teeth and gear inches work out to more speed. Is there a good reference site anyone can recommend?