Titanium Swift frame, anyone interested?
#51
my nice bike is at home


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Bikes: 2011 BMC Race Machine / 2012 BMC Road Machine / Trek 2300 / '90's Merlin/ '70's Raleigh 20/ Ti-'swift' folder / Erickson w/S&S couplers
btw, I think its "piqued" not peaked Just sayin'
#53
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Will a titanium frame eventually be available directly from swift? I'd buy one then, since the warranty would be for the lifetime of my bike.
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#54
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From: Albany, WA
The bike is expected at the end of June.
#55
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At this time this is a private one-off being built for me with Peter's blessing. Once I get it and it's a great success, we could see if there is a way forwards. It would have to be a commercial success, or at least not result in a loss for Xootr. Stating the obvious.
The bike is expected at the end of June.
The bike is expected at the end of June.
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#56
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From: Arizona
Bikes: Swift folder, single speed
At this time this is a private one-off being built for me with Peter's blessing. Once I get it and it's a great success, we could see if there is a way forwards. It would have to be a commercial success, or at least not result in a loss for Xootr. Stating the obvious.
The bike is expected at the end of June.
The bike is expected at the end of June.
Wonder what the shipping costs of a bike frame are from Brooklyn to New Zealand, and who's paying, Peter or you? By the way, when I ordered my Swift from Peter oh six years ago or something I think, it came with with defective bolt holes, and despite the warranty I had to pay the shipping back to NY from AZ, but peter said that what he'd do for me was exchange my aluminum frame for a new steel one when it went into production, but I guess it never did (I haven't been following the updates here in recent years, and in fact just recently went back to riding).
As for the inherent inevitability of aluminum cracking, I don't know. DC-3's are made of aluminum and many of them built in the 1930's are still flying.
#57
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From: Albany, WA
Wonder what the shipping costs of a bike frame are from Brooklyn to New Zealand, and who's paying, Peter or you? By the way, when I ordered my Swift from Peter oh six years ago or something I think, it came with with defective bolt holes, and despite the warranty I had to pay the shipping back to NY from AZ, but peter said that what he'd do for me was exchange my aluminum frame for a new steel one when it went into production, but I guess it never did (I haven't been following the updates here in recent years, and in fact just recently went back to riding).
As for the inherent inevitability of aluminum cracking, I don't know. DC-3's are made of aluminum and many of them built in the 1930's are still flying.
As for the inherent inevitability of aluminum cracking, I don't know. DC-3's are made of aluminum and many of them built in the 1930's are still flying.
#60
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Titanium can crack when it's welded incompetently (i.e, by an "artisan"). Aluminum weathers fatigue better than people fear; just look at all the B-52s and KC-135s still flying 60 years after their manufacture. Not saying one is better or worse. Here's MY wishlist for a Swift Folder (and why I don't own one):
1) threadless headset so I can remove the fork for efficient packing
2) splittable dropout to run carbon belt drive
3) disc brakes
Basically, I wanna Bike Friday Silk that isn't made by dirty hippies in Oregon. Which definitely also rules out the HPM Swift. And while it's not that I don't love BF's unironic use of the Comic Sans MS typeface (I truly do), everything else about their brand image makes me want to club baby seals, buy stock in Halliburton, and run straight pipes on my motorcycle. And they cost too much. Alas, the Silk ticks all the boxes for me feature-wise. Sigh.
1) threadless headset so I can remove the fork for efficient packing
2) splittable dropout to run carbon belt drive
3) disc brakes
Basically, I wanna Bike Friday Silk that isn't made by dirty hippies in Oregon. Which definitely also rules out the HPM Swift. And while it's not that I don't love BF's unironic use of the Comic Sans MS typeface (I truly do), everything else about their brand image makes me want to club baby seals, buy stock in Halliburton, and run straight pipes on my motorcycle. And they cost too much. Alas, the Silk ticks all the boxes for me feature-wise. Sigh.
Last edited by bikemig; 06-24-14 at 07:25 AM.
#62
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From: Seattle
Ooooh, aaaahh...
What's the weight? Like the second set of cable guides toward the rear of the top tube. Wish my frame had those. And those dropouts... do they taper to points as sharp as they look in the image?
Is this designed for the same fork?
What's the weight? Like the second set of cable guides toward the rear of the top tube. Wish my frame had those. And those dropouts... do they taper to points as sharp as they look in the image?
Is this designed for the same fork?
#64
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The dropouts/track ends are quite pointy.
The fork geometry is the same as the stock Xootr fork but I ordered a nice Ti fork, plus Ti seatpost and Ti stem/riser.
#65
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I was faced with the difficult choice between weight and frame stiffness. I was very concerned that I would end up with a frame that is too flexible to be able to ride hard, so I chose to err on the side of caution and spec'ed thick-walled tubes for the main tubes. So from my weight calculations the tubing alone is about 1.8kg. The welds will add some so I expect 2kg or more.
The dropouts/track ends are quite pointy.
The fork geometry is the same as the stock Xootr fork but I ordered a nice Ti fork, plus Ti seatpost and Ti stem/riser.
The dropouts/track ends are quite pointy.
The fork geometry is the same as the stock Xootr fork but I ordered a nice Ti fork, plus Ti seatpost and Ti stem/riser.
the frame reminds me of the montague folding bikes. :-)
#67
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451 wheels, I left off the V-brake pivots. I will have to assess the ride quality, and based on that, might start a second version. I already have some ideas for improvement. Disc brake mounts might be one of them, so wheel size is an easy choice.
Last edited by jur; 06-25-14 at 02:41 PM.
#69
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Bikes: M5 Carbon High Racer, Trek Emonda SL6
I have nothing against your plan to have a titanium version of your bike - sounds like something I'd like to have as well. But I am skeptical about the idea that one frame material is inevitably going to fail and some other material will be immune. In normal use any bike frame is going to be subjected to stresses above the nominal fatigue limit - so given enough use it will eventually fail. But 'enough use' may well be more use than it gets in the lifetime of its owner, or it may fail much more quickly due to some flaw in the material, manufacture, or design.
My personal experience is that I've only had one aluminum bike (and it's not a folder) - a 25 year old Cannondale with 125 kmiles and no failure. OTOH, my steel-framed folder had a frame crack develop with only about one tenth the mileage of the Cannondale. Fortunately the manufacturer was very good about fixing the problem and got me back on the road quickly and at no cost to myself.
My personal experience is that I've only had one aluminum bike (and it's not a folder) - a 25 year old Cannondale with 125 kmiles and no failure. OTOH, my steel-framed folder had a frame crack develop with only about one tenth the mileage of the Cannondale. Fortunately the manufacturer was very good about fixing the problem and got me back on the road quickly and at no cost to myself.
#71
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From: Albany, WA
For any Ti lovers, I envisage the following process:
1. I get my frame, fork seatpost etc etc, build the bike up.
2. I go for rides. Many rides.
3. I tear myself away and write a review of the bike, plus any recommendations for improvement.
4. We liaise with Peter Reich about how to proceed, since the design belongs to him. Peter gave me permission to get one successful frame built, but not to go into a business arrangement.
My design tweaks:
* I made the twin top tube design change because the builder did not have a large enough oval tube. I did some engineering calcs on the tube torsional stiffness and tried to get something close to the aluminium version's stiffness.
* I designed an easier-to-produce pivot for the fold, and a way to make a pivot on the dual tube system.
* I made a small change to the geometry to accommodate a slightly shorter fork.
* I made the top tube 25mm longer for a slightly taller average rider.
* I omitted the brake pivots. I will use this one with road brakes.
* I added cable stops, cable tie points and a cable pulley boss at the bottom rear of the seat tube for easier derailleur cable installations.
I don't regard any of these as radical enough to justify calling it anything else but a true blue Swift.
1. I get my frame, fork seatpost etc etc, build the bike up.
2. I go for rides. Many rides.
3. I tear myself away and write a review of the bike, plus any recommendations for improvement.
4. We liaise with Peter Reich about how to proceed, since the design belongs to him. Peter gave me permission to get one successful frame built, but not to go into a business arrangement.
My design tweaks:
* I made the twin top tube design change because the builder did not have a large enough oval tube. I did some engineering calcs on the tube torsional stiffness and tried to get something close to the aluminium version's stiffness.
* I designed an easier-to-produce pivot for the fold, and a way to make a pivot on the dual tube system.
* I made a small change to the geometry to accommodate a slightly shorter fork.
* I made the top tube 25mm longer for a slightly taller average rider.
* I omitted the brake pivots. I will use this one with road brakes.
* I added cable stops, cable tie points and a cable pulley boss at the bottom rear of the seat tube for easier derailleur cable installations.
I don't regard any of these as radical enough to justify calling it anything else but a true blue Swift.
Last edited by jur; 06-27-14 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Corrected top tube lengthening error, must be 25mm
#73
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I have also put in a query whether disc brake fittings could be fitted with no problems.
#74
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#75
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jur, sign me up for the next batch of Ti Swifts. Alfine 11 IGH with mechanical disc brakes. Hydraulic disc brakes have more stopping power and about 1000x more maintenance problems.
In addition to the longer maintube, did you opt for the 12" handlepost?
In addition to the longer maintube, did you opt for the 12" handlepost?









