Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Folding Bikes
Reload this Page >

Titanium Swift frame, anyone interested?

Notices
Folding Bikes Discuss the unique features and issues of folding bikes. Also a great place to learn what folding bike will work best for your needs.

Titanium Swift frame, anyone interested?

Old 05-28-14, 09:24 AM
  #51  
my nice bike is at home
 
kraftwerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Posts: 950

Bikes: 2011 BMC Race Machine / 2012 BMC Road Machine / Trek 2300 / '90's Merlin/ '70's Raleigh 20/ Ti-'swift' folder / Erickson w/S&S couplers

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 65 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 24 Posts
btw, I think its "piqued" not peaked Just sayin'
kraftwerk is offline  
Old 05-29-14, 09:06 AM
  #52  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
It's also it's not its, in this case
mark03 is offline  
Old 05-29-14, 04:31 PM
  #53  
55+ Club,...
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,226

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 792 Times in 552 Posts
Will a titanium frame eventually be available directly from swift? I'd buy one then, since the warranty would be for the lifetime of my bike.
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 05-29-14, 05:41 PM
  #54  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by tds101
Will a titanium frame eventually be available directly from swift? I'd buy one then, since the warranty would be for the lifetime of my bike.
At this time this is a private one-off being built for me with Peter's blessing. Once I get it and it's a great success, we could see if there is a way forwards. It would have to be a commercial success, or at least not result in a loss for Xootr. Stating the obvious.

The bike is expected at the end of June.
jur is offline  
Old 05-30-14, 06:53 AM
  #55  
55+ Club,...
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,226

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 792 Times in 552 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
At this time this is a private one-off being built for me with Peter's blessing. Once I get it and it's a great success, we could see if there is a way forwards. It would have to be a commercial success, or at least not result in a loss for Xootr. Stating the obvious.

The bike is expected at the end of June.
No problem. I'll wait and see how it goes. And if it's a success I'll order a xootr swift frame & fork when the time (hopefully) arrives. I'm in no rush - except to see pictures of what yours looks like. ;-)
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 05-31-14, 01:03 AM
  #56  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 862

Bikes: Swift folder, single speed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
At this time this is a private one-off being built for me with Peter's blessing. Once I get it and it's a great success, we could see if there is a way forwards. It would have to be a commercial success, or at least not result in a loss for Xootr. Stating the obvious.

The bike is expected at the end of June.

Wonder what the shipping costs of a bike frame are from Brooklyn to New Zealand, and who's paying, Peter or you? By the way, when I ordered my Swift from Peter oh six years ago or something I think, it came with with defective bolt holes, and despite the warranty I had to pay the shipping back to NY from AZ, but peter said that what he'd do for me was exchange my aluminum frame for a new steel one when it went into production, but I guess it never did (I haven't been following the updates here in recent years, and in fact just recently went back to riding).

As for the inherent inevitability of aluminum cracking, I don't know. DC-3's are made of aluminum and many of them built in the 1930's are still flying.
werewolf is offline  
Old 05-31-14, 06:23 AM
  #57  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by werewolf
Wonder what the shipping costs of a bike frame are from Brooklyn to New Zealand, and who's paying, Peter or you? By the way, when I ordered my Swift from Peter oh six years ago or something I think, it came with with defective bolt holes, and despite the warranty I had to pay the shipping back to NY from AZ, but peter said that what he'd do for me was exchange my aluminum frame for a new steel one when it went into production, but I guess it never did (I haven't been following the updates here in recent years, and in fact just recently went back to riding).

As for the inherent inevitability of aluminum cracking, I don't know. DC-3's are made of aluminum and many of them built in the 1930's are still flying.
I paid for the shipping of the replacement frame. This seems like the correct thing to me. For example, if we were in the same city and I drove my car to pick up a replacement frame under the guarantee, I would not expect to be reimbursed for fuel. The shipping of goods falls to the customer, it's their choice. I suppose there may be cases where the vendor also pays for shipping. For example if I returned an item of clothing due to size reasons, I pay the shipping back to the vendor but they would ship me a replacement free of charge.
jur is offline  
Old 06-24-14, 06:32 AM
  #58  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
First pics of the first Swift Ti:

Last edited by jur; 06-24-14 at 06:45 AM.
jur is offline  
Old 06-24-14, 06:50 AM
  #59  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: GMT +8
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
beautiful titanium swift frame. :-)
marxmini is offline  
Old 06-24-14, 07:13 AM
  #60  
Senior Member
 
bikemig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Middle Earth (aka IA)
Posts: 20,490

Bikes: A bunch of old bikes and a few new ones

Mentioned: 178 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5871 Post(s)
Liked 3,426 Times in 2,055 Posts
Originally Posted by Thasiet
Titanium can crack when it's welded incompetently (i.e, by an "artisan"). Aluminum weathers fatigue better than people fear; just look at all the B-52s and KC-135s still flying 60 years after their manufacture. Not saying one is better or worse. Here's MY wishlist for a Swift Folder (and why I don't own one):

1) threadless headset so I can remove the fork for efficient packing
2) splittable dropout to run carbon belt drive
3) disc brakes

Basically, I wanna Bike Friday Silk that isn't made by dirty hippies in Oregon. Which definitely also rules out the HPM Swift. And while it's not that I don't love BF's unironic use of the Comic Sans MS typeface (I truly do), everything else about their brand image makes me want to club baby seals, buy stock in Halliburton, and run straight pipes on my motorcycle. And they cost too much. Alas, the Silk ticks all the boxes for me feature-wise. Sigh.
I've been fence sitting on whether to buy a bike friday new world tourist for some time. Reading this post helped convince me that this would be a good company to buy a bike from.

Last edited by bikemig; 06-24-14 at 07:25 AM.
bikemig is offline  
Old 06-24-14, 11:10 AM
  #61  
55+ Club,...
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,226

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 792 Times in 552 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
First pics of the first Swift Ti:
Holy CRAP! That thing is SMOKIN!
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 06-24-14, 12:03 PM
  #62  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Seattle
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jur
First pics of the first Swift Ti:
Ooooh, aaaahh...

What's the weight? Like the second set of cable guides toward the rear of the top tube. Wish my frame had those. And those dropouts... do they taper to points as sharp as they look in the image?

Is this designed for the same fork?
mark03 is offline  
Old 06-25-14, 03:56 AM
  #63  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
More photos, provided by the frame builder...







jur is offline  
Old 06-25-14, 04:32 AM
  #64  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by mark03
Ooooh, aaaahh...

What's the weight? Like the second set of cable guides toward the rear of the top tube. Wish my frame had those. And those dropouts... do they taper to points as sharp as they look in the image?

Is this designed for the same fork?
I was faced with the difficult choice between weight and frame stiffness. I was very concerned that I would end up with a frame that is too flexible to be able to ride hard, so I chose to err on the side of caution and spec'ed thick-walled tubes for the main tubes. So from my weight calculations the tubing alone is about 1.8kg. The welds will add some so I expect 2kg or more.

The dropouts/track ends are quite pointy.

The fork geometry is the same as the stock Xootr fork but I ordered a nice Ti fork, plus Ti seatpost and Ti stem/riser.
jur is offline  
Old 06-25-14, 05:13 AM
  #65  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: GMT +8
Posts: 230
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
I was faced with the difficult choice between weight and frame stiffness. I was very concerned that I would end up with a frame that is too flexible to be able to ride hard, so I chose to err on the side of caution and spec'ed thick-walled tubes for the main tubes. So from my weight calculations the tubing alone is about 1.8kg. The welds will add some so I expect 2kg or more.

The dropouts/track ends are quite pointy.

The fork geometry is the same as the stock Xootr fork but I ordered a nice Ti fork, plus Ti seatpost and Ti stem/riser.
the Ti swift was done well. i am very impressed with the welds. :-)

the frame reminds me of the montague folding bikes. :-)
marxmini is offline  
Old 06-25-14, 08:08 AM
  #66  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Rafael, California
Posts: 2,097
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 6 Posts
Sweet looking frame.. are you going 451 with this? what drivetrain? where're the rest of the bits???
BruceMetras is offline  
Old 06-25-14, 02:35 PM
  #67  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by BruceMetras
Sweet looking frame.. are you going 451 with this? what drivetrain? where're the rest of the bits???
I don't have it in my grubby hands yet. These are pics sent for my approval. Once all the bits are ready and I am happy, the builder will send it to me. Then the bike building starts. I tried to do as much as possible in Ti.

451 wheels, I left off the V-brake pivots. I will have to assess the ride quality, and based on that, might start a second version. I already have some ideas for improvement. Disc brake mounts might be one of them, so wheel size is an easy choice.

Last edited by jur; 06-25-14 at 02:41 PM.
jur is offline  
Old 06-27-14, 01:32 PM
  #68  
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Jur,

The pix look great!
I would be very interested in a group buy for this Ti frame.
In fact, with a couple of additional changes, I would commit to two frames.
porschetoyz is offline  
Old 06-27-14, 04:42 PM
  #69  
Car free since 1995
 
pm124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,050

Bikes: M5 Carbon High Racer, Trek Emonda SL6

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by prathmann
I have nothing against your plan to have a titanium version of your bike - sounds like something I'd like to have as well. But I am skeptical about the idea that one frame material is inevitably going to fail and some other material will be immune. In normal use any bike frame is going to be subjected to stresses above the nominal fatigue limit - so given enough use it will eventually fail. But 'enough use' may well be more use than it gets in the lifetime of its owner, or it may fail much more quickly due to some flaw in the material, manufacture, or design.

My personal experience is that I've only had one aluminum bike (and it's not a folder) - a 25 year old Cannondale with 125 kmiles and no failure. OTOH, my steel-framed folder had a frame crack develop with only about one tenth the mileage of the Cannondale. Fortunately the manufacturer was very good about fixing the problem and got me back on the road quickly and at no cost to myself.
Yes, some diamond frame aluminum bikes will take a long time to fail. But on average, titanium can be passed down over the generations like a good watch and aluminum will die a painful death before you do. Bacchetta, a recumbent manufacturer, has sold a lot of bikes and they have reported frame failures on their carbon and aluminum models, but never a failure on any of their titanium bikes. Though I did speak with one fellow who had a broken stay on a litespeed.
pm124 is offline  
Old 06-27-14, 04:45 PM
  #70  
Car free since 1995
 
pm124's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,050

Bikes: M5 Carbon High Racer, Trek Emonda SL6

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Jur--No question you will have the coolest folder out there!
pm124 is offline  
Old 06-27-14, 08:03 PM
  #71  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
For any Ti lovers, I envisage the following process:

1. I get my frame, fork seatpost etc etc, build the bike up.
2. I go for rides. Many rides.
3. I tear myself away and write a review of the bike, plus any recommendations for improvement.
4. We liaise with Peter Reich about how to proceed, since the design belongs to him. Peter gave me permission to get one successful frame built, but not to go into a business arrangement.

My design tweaks:

* I made the twin top tube design change because the builder did not have a large enough oval tube. I did some engineering calcs on the tube torsional stiffness and tried to get something close to the aluminium version's stiffness.

* I designed an easier-to-produce pivot for the fold, and a way to make a pivot on the dual tube system.

* I made a small change to the geometry to accommodate a slightly shorter fork.

* I made the top tube 25mm longer for a slightly taller average rider.

* I omitted the brake pivots. I will use this one with road brakes.

* I added cable stops, cable tie points and a cable pulley boss at the bottom rear of the seat tube for easier derailleur cable installations.

I don't regard any of these as radical enough to justify calling it anything else but a true blue Swift.

Last edited by jur; 06-27-14 at 08:41 PM. Reason: Corrected top tube lengthening error, must be 25mm
jur is offline  
Old 06-27-14, 11:20 PM
  #72  
55+ Club,...
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,226

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 792 Times in 552 Posts
Disc brakes,...that's what I'd luv on a Ti Swift!!!
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 06-28-14, 12:05 AM
  #73  
jur
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Albany, WA
Posts: 7,393
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 321 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by mark03
Ooooh, aaaahh...

What's the weight? Like the second set of cable guides toward the rear of the top tube.
Actually I just realised that is a mistake. The left side should have had the 2, and the right the 1. Email sent.

I have also put in a query whether disc brake fittings could be fitted with no problems.
jur is offline  
Old 06-28-14, 11:55 AM
  #74  
55+ Club,...
 
tds101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Somewhere in New York, NY
Posts: 4,226

Bikes: 9+,...

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1070 Post(s)
Liked 792 Times in 552 Posts
Originally Posted by jur
Actually I just realised that is a mistake. The left side should have had the 2, and the right the 1. Email sent.

I have also put in a query whether disc brake fittings could be fitted with no problems.
Woohoo! Discs would be a killer on this!
__________________
If it wasn't for you meddling kids,...
tds101 is offline  
Old 06-28-14, 03:18 PM
  #75  
too many bikes
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
jur, sign me up for the next batch of Ti Swifts. Alfine 11 IGH with mechanical disc brakes. Hydraulic disc brakes have more stopping power and about 1000x more maintenance problems.
In addition to the longer maintube, did you opt for the 12" handlepost?
maunakea is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.