If you go with a chain tensioner it will be real easy.

The N360 is a pig, however.

There are a few ways to get a grip shift onto a road bar. It's not much of a problem.

Are you referring to the weight (which at over 5 lbs is a lot) or something else?

Just weight. If "pig" means something derogatory and I've insulted someone, I apologize. (I don't think so but I'm out of the loop since the kiddies)

By the way, some of the utility cycling folks suggest that the N360 is a robust IGH. Despite it's weight, I would consider it for a lot of purposes. But as a travel bike, my instinct says it's a no-go because weight matters a lot while flying.

Not so much if carried in a Boeing 747-400, they can lift a lot ..

I wasn't insulted. I just wanted to make sure I understood the comment (which I did).

I do think that a 5.5 lbs hub is heavy. And while I'm a big fan of not being a weight weenie on a bicycle, a folding bicycle that you carry a lot is somewhat of an exception.

Just making sure bud!

Those that have flown with folding bikes that have derailleurs - have you run in to any problems with damage? Anything that was easy to repair - like bend a front derailleur back to shape - or harder to fix issues that required replacement parts?

I thought the N360 was 3.5lbs, not 5.5? Either way, yea more weight isn't a good thing, but if that means a lot lower chance of something breaking then it would be a viable option.

I help box up bikes when the Touring rider reaches the west coast, and send it back to their home ..

We remove the RD, pad it zip tie it to the spokes , and then it wont bend the dropout hanger in transit.

I have flown a few times with 2 RD equipped folding bikes; a Tobukaeru with 20in. wheels and 21 speeds + a Citizen Tokyo with 16in. wheels and 7 speeds.
Both bikes were dismantled before being squeezed in a standard hard sided suitcase. I had to remove the RD on the Tobukaeru but didn't have to for the
Tokyo. No issues so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUQN...IoDLA&index=25

2013 Citizen Tokyo in a suitcase by 1nterceptor, on Flickr

The two really wide range options are Brompton's 6-speed very-wide hub, and the Shimano DualDrive.

16" bikes can go *really* low. The problem is getting high. On my tikit, with an 11-32T 9-speed rear and a 60T front (the largest you can fit on the tikit), plus fat Scorcher tires, I get get 31.7 - 92.1 gear inches (the base 11-28 / 53T / Marathon Tire configuration is 31.2 - 79.4). But this requires a chainring guard, and 60T chainring guards are very rare. Toxy makes a nice black one which is a pretty good deal compared to others I've seen.

Here are the remaining rational options for the tikit (stolen from the tikit wiki, which I figure is fine since I wrote it):

1. Upgrading to the Shimano Capreo (a 9-speed 9-26 rear cassette, plus a custom hub), plus Scorchers, yields a 34.4 to 99.4 with the standard (53 tooth) chainring.

2. Upgrading to the SRAM DualDrive (a combination of 8-speed cassette and a 3-speed internal hub gear), plus Scorchers, yields 19.2 to 110.6 with the standard (53 tooth) chainring.

3. Upgrading to a Schlumpf SpeedDrive, plus Scorchers, yields 29.1 to 131.0 with the standard (53 tooth) chainring. That's pretty exotic tho.

4. The tikit can be upgraded to a variety of internal hubs (Shimano Alfine or Nexus 8, SRAM, Rohlhoff Speedhub 14, etc.). However, the standard (base) tikit has non-adjustable vertical dropouts, and they will require a chain tensioner.

Don't consider the number of gears, consider the range. The Brompton's 6-speed hub gives 33 - 99 gear inches. That's really amazingly good given the Brompton's constraints.

I've never had any damage to derailers from flying.

bike friday's travel case comes with an "I" beam shaped support that prevents the hardcase from being compressed while in transit; this protects the derailler and other delicate bits from being damaged.




the black disc in the center of the image shows an elevation view of the "I" beam in the correct position.



there are other solutions fro protecting the derailler. if your bike has rear rack mounts you can screw in a protective "block" made from a sufficiently long machine screw and a piece of wood or plastic. or, you can buy a derailler protector. this solution is not as rigid, but it affords some significant degree of protection and can remain installed on your bike for general purpose insurance against derailler damage. plus, these doo-dads are cheap.

FWIW a benefit of Shimano's centerlock Disc mount is how easy they are to remove from the Hub, and pack separately

so for travel packing you take it off and so it stays Flat.

How about a Dahon Curve D3 with either an Alfine 11 or N360? It looks like the weight is right about the same. The Alfine 11 has a wider range - 409% vs 360%, also a bit more expensive.

Is there anything to worry about with the reliability of either?

I think the Curve D3 frame is what im looking for - compact fold with a 16" wheel. Price-wise it is cheaper than a Bike Friday. Even with an Alfine 11 hub i could be in the low $1000's range getting a complete D3 and adding the hub.

there are those who are inclined to worry .. out of a million units made, some do not meet people's expectations ..



CVR N360 is stepless , so an infinite number of gears within its range. ..

FWIW R'off is 526%.. for 16" wheels they offer a 13t cog.

I think the Alfine is noticeably lighter.

Shimano Alfine 11 hub gear and shifter review | road.cc
Smaller, lighter NuVinci bicycle transmission revealed

The N360 is supposedly very robust. Last I heard, the Alfine 11 is still working out some issues.

The nice thing about a Curve is that you'll be able to test ride it. I highly recommend taking one out for a spin. If the ergonomics work, Dahon does make some nice accessories.

DAHON Bikes:*DAHON Accessories

From what i have read, the Alfine 11 issues seem to stem from operator error - not letting off of the petals much when shifting.

Question on gearing - even with a (theoretical) 68t chain ring and 20t cog on the alfine 11 the GI range is about 21-87. Does such a chain ring exist? What about a bigger one? Or would i have to get one custom made?

Runnjng some numbers real quick - a 68t chain ring would have radius around 138mm. That is starting to get up close to the crank arm length - stock is 170mm, my bike now has a 175mm.

A Curve D-3 has a narrow rear drop out width .. and aluminum stays .. not really the candidate for going out to 135mm to accommodate an Alfine or N360 .. a Sturmey Archer 8 is offered in narrow widths, and 1st gear is 1:1 while the other 7 are overdrive... so much easier to get top end and over 300% range without going to massive chain rings..

Thanks BruceMetras. There is no mention of the dropout dimension on the Dahon website.

With that information, running some numbers on the XRF8 hub - with the stock 46t chain ring on the Curve D3 I would have a range of 31-100 Gear Inches. Bumping that chain ring size down to 42 the GI is 28-92, going to a 38t chain ring goes to 26-83 GI. That is all with a 20t cog on the hub. Those are some more down-to-earth numbers. I am going to dig up my chart for the gearing on my current bike and see where things fall again. I know the most-used range is 31-83, but I am curious now. If I can expand that range a bit that would be cool, but how much overlap I have is TBD. Either way, though, it looks like that hub combination would get me a suitable set up - the chain ring size will shift the range either direction from there.

Edit -
I got my chart here and ran some numbers. I had to dig up some similar size tires to get the metric equivalent of the tire sizes. My numbers and the ones on Sheldon Brown's calculator were off and that would explain why... In any event, it looks like a 35t chain ring is what would make the gearing work - that should be about a 89.4 high and 27.5 low GI. That offers some overlap on both the top end and low end. Though, I would guess I won't be using the high gear much - that would be flying on a 16" folder.

I found in another thread here, not searching just reading through, there was apparently a Curve SL model that Dahon made that has a higher gear range (8-9 gears?). The poster mentioned it was 8 gears but when I searched the Dahon website (had to go back thru Archives - 2011 was the last year they were made - see link) the IGH in that spec sheet is a 9 speed. That would be right in the ballgame, though with a higher gearing shift than I'd like - 32-93 GI, bumping the chain ring down would solve that, though the Dahon's stock crank/chain ring look fairly specialized with the chain guards.

I am wondering how hard it would be to order the existing lineup Curve D3 and get the shop to swap out the hub with the XRF8, if they can get it. There are a few changes I'd like to make off the bat too, though - a drop bar set up (or split it if I have to for brakes/shifter install), petals maybe, and the saddle. Then the crank - I would need to change the chain ring size from stock, as well as go with a different crank arm length. So maybe building up from a frame would be an option? Unless Dahon doesn't deal with anything but "complete" sets.

Dahon Curve SL with 8-Speed IGH: Dahon Curve SL|Super light folding bike

It isn't available from there, but I posted the link for reference. Looks like it's quite a sweet folder - if you can locate one.

That's an error in copy.. the 9 speed was a Capreo Derailleur set up .. not IGH

The mods wouldn't be hard for a competent shop .. Most D3s have a one piece crank, so to change chainring you'd need another crank anyway. Can't buy a Curve frame only in the US .. maybe UK .. if you want to change the whole drivetrain, keep an eye out for a used one, or buy new and sell off the bits you don't want..

Is that the minimum cog size for an Alfine 11?

I have seen giant chainrings like that. I think that it would be custom made.