Hermespan

I'll keep here all info on trying to get a proper fit for seat post and saddle on my Flamingo NX7.

I spoke to local bike shop in Canada about getting an extended seat post in aluminum or titanium. The mechanic said the Flamingo one is already quite long (470 mm). But according to my 'I know my body best' still at least 8 cm too short for a full leg extension.

I also wonder why (and more importantly how to deal with it) the Flamingo seatpost is so robust in width, remaining constant width, like a vacuum cleaner tibe, rather than the Brompton one, which correct md uf I am wrong, tapers at the end. Brompfication (Thailand) also tapers.

What are pros and cons if each design in functikn, cost, etc? Also, why does the Brompton come from the bottom up and the Flamingo the reverse?

Ozonation

Keep going around the block on this issue, eh?

I stand 5'11" and have the extended Brompton seat post. The bike fits me fine with length to spare. As others have said in this forum, you should get fitted properly. You gave your height in a previous thread and I'm quite sure you're shorter than me. Unless you have an extraordinarily long inseam, you need a proper fitting or else the bike is simply no good.

My Brompton seat post is constant diameter throughout the main section: only the end is tapered to accommodate attaching the seat clip. What difference does it make to your fit if the seat post is tapered or not?

No idea why Flamingo designed their seat post with the reverse insertion. On the Brompton it's probably a safe guard to prevent you from pulling the tube all the way out by accident because this would then unlock the fold of the bike. As for Flamingo... why don't you ask them?

invisiblehand

Earlier the OP wrote the he had two bike that fit him well. The OP should take the appropriate measurements from those bikes and compare them with the Flamingo. Otherwise I think Ozonation's point is correct.

If I'm thinking about the question correctly, the tapering shouldn't make any difference with respect to fit. The saddle is still on top and the length of the post determines how high it gets. Anyway, worrying about tapering and seatposts is silly until you take the measurements -- perhaps a few photos/video -- and compare them.

fietsbob

Digital caliper . put numbers on diameter differences . ovaled from bending?

Hermespan

I contacted eight pro bike shops in the Greater Vancouver Regional District about a pro bike fitting. One or two said to come on down (in fact all are in Vancouver itself). Several replied that they can't do a proper fitting on a foldie. But none of them sound equipped to do full service which involves photos and a rather kinesiology-oriented fit. I had to laugh when the keenest one multiple times insisted that I get the okay from my MD or physiotherapist before doing anything further with them. Why did I laugh? My sense was that they were afraid of being sued. Not a major factor in running a bicycle business in SEA!

Hermespan

Layman's English please

Hermespan

I observe that to truly have leg extended my seat post has to be 5-6 inches beyond the safety mark, not just the 3 inches I already have it extended. I am not confident riding it with only 2 1/2 inches below the lock. A previous poster mentioned how he's 5'11" and on his Brompton *he* doesn't need an extended seat post. Well, A Flamingo is not a Brompton. Maybe in some ways it is different in dimensions. Maybe the gear wheel is higher. I don't know.

My idea now is to take the advice of a previous poster and try a longer seat post. But instead of spending what $250 on getting a titanium extended seat post shipped from Bangkok, to jerry-rig it.

My question is is it better to insert a slightly smaller diameter piece of titanium or aluminum tubing *inside* the original, attaching that by welding. Or to add the very same diameter and weld thickness to thickness. Internal attachment sounds easier to do and stronger to me.

Coal Buster

Probably sensed from your call, like your posts, that you're a hard person to deal with and came up with a polite way to put you off.

blakcloud

No one is afraid of being sued in Canada because for the most part we don't sue. We say sorry and move on.

This idea of having a bike fitting for a folder is beyond me. It is a folding bike, you are not trying to beat the hour record. Allow your injury to heal, and be moderate with your cycling. Look around, most people don't have as many problems with buying a folder and other cycling products as you have had. You just spent time in countries where people ride ill-fitting bikes, bikes that carry way to much weight, bikes that archaic and yet they manage to survive. What is that telling you?

May I suggest, putting the keyboard aside for a while, stop obsessing, allow your body to heal from your injury. May I also suggest read a book, one that If found enlightening when it came to cycling is "Just Ride" by Grant Peterson. You may not agree with everything he writes but that is alright.

One question I have to ask is "are you getting any enjoyment out of this whole endeavor in buying a folder and everything that is associated with it? Because from where I sit, I haven't read one thing that suggests you are actually having fun. If this is the case ask yourself why aren't you? Sometimes even I get caught up on these boards. There has to be some enjoyment when we actually get on the bike and ride them, instead of sitting at the computer obsessing about them.

With that said, I will sign off and go ride my Brompton, a bike I never really liked since I bought it, but it is growing on me because in the end it just a bike, something I can pedal along with. I wish you all the best in just riding your bike.

Ozonation

Hey blakcloud... you have a Brompton AND a Rivendell Sam! Cool. When did you get the Sam?

Hermespan

Ideal seat post in order of priority (for me)...

1. enough length (Brompton and Brompfication sell, Flamingo does not)
2. compact fold (Brompton wins here with its telescopic, all ithers increase dimensions - already my Fkamingo doesn't fit in some Brompton cases)
3. lightweight (Brompton sells titanium and steel, no aluminum? Brompfication sells titanium)
4. elbow bend so lengthens distance from seat to handlebars [although this will compromise compactness of fold] (none of three manufacturers mentioned above sell)

Unless there is some additional manufacturer there is no model that satusfies the first three let alone all four features of the perfect seat post for Flamingo, let alone adding the fifth - affordable!

Hermespan

Thank you for your concern and lay psychiatric evaluation.

Indeed it might be a great waste if time participating in this forum if I have little positive to share. But I want to warn others that as another poster writes wittily 'a bike ride is not a walk in the park'. I explored a dangerous neighbourhood of Addis Ababa yet I get more stress and damage and expense by trying to have a comfortable safe ride on my Flamingo. Actually that's not quite true, four punks tried to rob me in the shanty town - but this bicycle hassle is never ending.

"You just spent time in countries where people ride ill-fitting bikes, bikes that carry way to much weight, bikes that archaic and yet they manage to survive. What is that telling you?"

I don't know. Perhaps trash the Flamingo and go back to taking buses or get rich and buy a $3000+ Brompton.

I am certainly not trying to 'beat the hour record' - never suggested that. Just use a travel-friendly bicycle to get around, that's all

It's unlikely I will read a book on cycling, part of the appeal of riding is the non- intellectual nature of the activity.

ThorUSA

I give you a hundred dollar if you buy a Bromptom ......
my sales for Dahons and Terns will certainly go up, if everybody reads how awfaul that Brommy is going to be ....

No I am kidding of course...

I fully agree with Blakcloud ... go put the keyboard away and learn to enjoy a nice relaxed bike ride
thor

Ozonation

You know Hermespan... I think that - like many others on this forum do - that we've done all we can to suggest: 1) ways around your dilemma; and then 2) some criticisms on how you're approaching this whole "biking thing" to maybe bring a little insight to you. Basic advice such as getting a fitting, talking to local knowledge bike experts, seeing reputable doctors, buying quality bikes or quality parts... don't seem to have any traction with you, and then you counter with supposed solutions that seem excessive or irrelevant to problems that, frankly, almost none of us encounter.

Jumping from one shop to another in foreign countries, going from one "medical expert" to another, thinking that very long seat posts will fix your problem (when I and others are taller than you and seem to have no problems with multiple brands of folding bikes), and then in one of your last posts... welding things together?

I really don't want to be too critical - because forums are meant for discussion and opinions - but I think you're looking for an easy solution to correct a mistake or mistakes. As you said, the Flamingo is not a Brompton... and that's probably a large part of the problem. You get what you pay for - buyer beware. You've mentioned former injuries - well, get healed and don't expect your body to adapt back to cycling overnight. And you just replied that you will probably not read a book about cycling because you want to embrace the non-intellectual nature of biking. Well, that's going to be a problem now. Biking is pretty damn intellectual - a lot of thinking is represented in that little frame with two wheels. Nobody is suggesting you need to become a mechanical engineer or a bike technician, but there are some basic things you should know about cycling to make it more enjoyable.

"Just Ride" by Grant Petersen is an excellent book to start with. It's controversial and not everybody agrees with it, but it has some really good principles and discussion in it, and it's an easy read. In fact, you probably could have read it given the time you've invested into these forums. I read it in about an hour - yes, it's THAT readable.

An analogy: some posts back, you mentioned photography, and that you gave it up because you found it too much. Seven years ago, I was a casual shooter, but I got in photography and picked up some "higher end gear" - but I still didn't really know what I was doing. I just skimmed the surface and followed whatever trend looked flashy in the photo magazines and websites. I figured the bigger, most recent lens would solve my inability to capture the "right moment". Sound familiar? A good friend of mine recognized that I had some real talent and suggested I take a basic photography course. So, after a few months of procrastination, I signed up for a basic course at my local college - just a 10 week, casual, no pressure community course. Best damn $150 I ever spent, and best return on the $1000 worth of gear I had bought. Let me repeat... the $150 on some basic lessons was the best damn money I ever spent. And now... yes, I have much, much more gear, and some big lens, but I've shot local, regional, national, and even international sporting events, and I'm one of the go-to photographers for local sporting and reception events. A little education on a subject you're not familiar with goes a long way. (Note: photography AND cycling are, combined, very expensive. )

So as blakcloud suggested... get healed, go out and ride your bike, read up on biking and the culture on biking, not just the latest review on the trendy gadgets... and maybe, just maybe... save up a little cash to buy a quality bike in the future. There are no easy solutions.

Good luck.

Hermespan

I appreciate your good wishes, but I think u are not spot on on a few of your points....

"Basic advice such as getting a fitting, talking to local knowledge bike experts, seeing reputable doctors, buying quality bikes or quality parts... don't seem to have any traction with you "

I have seen a physio and am doing exercises daily (she tells me I am weak). I am researching which bike fitters I can afford and in fact tomorrow am shopping for one to hire - 'local' as you call Canadian ones where I spend only several months a year. The point whete u are correct is my resistance to buying quality parts.

If cycling becomes complicated or expensive I 'll give it up. It's just a bicycle.

Ozonation

Well I stand corrected then! Seriously... pay attention to your health and please do some reading about biking before you decide on any drastic bike modifications, or even before you buy a quality bike. Don't give up on cycling - even recreational cycling - before it gets an honest chance. Good luck again.

Hermespan

Not inspiring... 'Be realistic' my physio says: "Stop cycling, for good. And if you won't do that, then no hills and low gears." I heard her saying to the young athlete beside me "Muscles are resilient, and the get a lot of blood flow. They heal. Ligaments less so. Cartilege doesn't regenerate." In interuppted her private conversation, shocked: 'Uh, is my knee damage ligament or cartilage?' "Cartilage, you're missing part of your knee now. It won't grow back."

She is good. Well, what do I onow. Her treatments seem to help and she is educating me. But the main reason I continue is her fees are affordable abd she is in the neighbourhood, right at my closest swimming pool. But you get what you pay for. She sees three clients at the same time, flitting between us like a dentist. She tests by maneuvering my leg yo gauge strength, pressing on my knee for sensitivity, uses some electrical device called IFC plus a muscle stimulator. But tonight she left me for multiple sessions, including one of 18 minutes, doing my own thing (exercises). I thought physio would be one- on-one, as indeed it is in Malaysia. I will continue with her weekly hour sessions but also take a sample paid session with a more expensive physio at a bike fit centre for $80. See if it's actually better value. I felt sorry tonight for woman being quickly shown an exercise, then left alone without having verify by seeing the patient do it correctly, doing it wrong abd ten minutes later being corrected. I can use youtube - from tutoring I expect hands on attention.

Time to buy a wobbly board to strengthen my balance (leg muscles?)

ThorUSA

just to make sure... you are not blaming the bike for loss of cartilage ?

you are again looking for a good deal on your Therapist, but than be upset when she/he leaves to attend yo other patients, instead of doing a privat session just with you alone ? My daughter is an OT ... do you know what their hourly rate for a private session should be ... after they have to pay back hundred thousands of dollars in college tuition ?
So she has 3 clients and charges how much ? Obviously less than 80 dlr an hour ....because thats the "expensive" alternative ...

well ?

I think You really should think about the old verbage..u get what u pay for ...

now lets go back to Bicycles

Hermespan

Nope, MD says loss of cartilege wear and tear related. Perhaps suddenly a month of cycling 5-20 km a day aggravated pre-existing condition. Who's to know?

My physio charges $50 an hour. I just presumed sessions would be one on one like a swimming tutor or masseuse.

Hermespan

update

Today I went in to see what is one of two medically-oriented bike centers in the Vancouver area. CATALYST KINETICS in Burnaby has two floors. The center is geared towards athletes and financially well-off cyclists for whom bike health and bike fitting is an investment. It has chiropractors, physiotherapists, several elaborate systems of gauging what bike dimensions and features make sense. Including video. The proprietor Rob impressed me by his experience and vision. He strikes me as inpeccably honest. He told me without asking that he charges a fee for professional bike fitting plus gets a commission or fee from the bike sale from wherever the client purchases the bike (I didn 't ask him how this is enforced).

You can see the website by googling the name and location.

Apparenty there is another similar service in the Vancouver area that started before them. Number two tries harder? He sure did help me out. And the price ? Free. He offered to meet me and discuss whether a pro bike fitting made sense. He ended up spending over 30 minutrs of his time in a casual assessment and opinions for action.

Here is what I learned...

Most important in my case is seat post height. He suggested that one industry standard is overly simplistic as we are all different. He had me stand on a board and insert a specialized measuring contraption in my inseam. Mine is 843 minus 10 for something I forget.

Rob suggested I somehow extend the current seatpost by asking at another bike shop (in fact the most established). Top or bottom doesn't matter but it'll require a metal shop.

Only if that fails get a saddle with longer rails such as fhe COBMAX.

Third would be getting cleets and shoes. He admonished me against clips as unlike cleets that allow a 6% leeway for the natural position and movement of the foot, clips are fixed.He said my idea of using clips to pedal with only one foot was not practical. I forget his reason.

Lastly the brake on the handlebars should be swivelled further up so I am not reaching over so far. I explained that origjnally they had been but to make the fold smaller I had the mechanic at the selling shop adjust them.

I want to see their physiotherapist because she is a Master of Physiotherapy (literally), a Kineseologist and has multiple 'papers' and specialized cycling physiotherapy interests and experience. Problem is she is in high demand by serious cyclists. Her name is Tara Lazarski. Next week she goes to serve the Olympic team or some such.

ThorUSA

put clipless pedals on that bike, non folding most likely as otherwise choices are pretty rare
get 200 dlr shoes
clip in and ride ...

until there is a red light, you stop, you fall over, break your hip

no problem with any seatposts anymore ...


-------------

what a piece of bs.. to say that clips are fixed and clip ons are better because of that. Clips come in a variety .. half clips , full ones, double ones, leather straps ..and all are adjustable and allow easy in an out . thasn there are powerstraps which allow free movement , easy in and out, and all with regular shoes .

He likes clip ins as they need exact installments and positioning, where he can charge customers a small randsom ... easy as that...

dynaryder

That's around 33",which is my inseam. FYI I use the extended length seatpost in my Brommie with the pentaclip all the way down,and still have a touch of post left over. Fits just fine.

Hermespan

Strange thing is my tailor tells me my inseam is 32. I know because for decades my waist and inseam were identical (ancient history). Perhaps a biking inseam is merciless to the family jewels.

Hermespan

Dynaryder: What is a pentaclip? Sounds like a wiccan recording file.

Hermespan

Nature of consultation: interview, assessment, discussion, teach basic suitable exercises
Price: CAD$90
Time: a good hour

Her cycling interest: high
Training: high and displays her certificates and degrees so no mystery
Bedside manner: good
Price: medium high
Value: good
Reference material provided: yes, printouts and basic instructions on treatment plan (my regular physio does not do this)
Follow up: offered me to email her w/ any questions (ditto)
Teaching: good
English fluency: perfect
Maturity vs. energy: good balance, on young side though (my regular physio is mature - I see benefits to both)
Will I go back: Yes, after she has come back from training Olympic team and I come back in December

Notes: This is my sharing her professional advice for *MY* condition and goals. Some of her advice was in direct response to my questions, not necessarily repeated here. Don 't interpret this post as meaning I suggest that this advice applies to anyone other than myself.

Step one: Do recommended exercises and email her thereafter with progress

Warnings: Enquired what antibiotics given as some (one?) used in MRSA treatment (half a year ago) have a risk of contributing to something or some side effect - I didn't note and said I would look up what the two drugs were. If you consult different physios , whether sequentially or simultaneously , don't cherry pick their advice. Follow the orogram completely - otherwise you risk skipping an important part and thus be following an incomplete program.

Suggested therapies to look into: 'Prolo' (sugar basically) injections helps. I told her I would be overseas where medical care is more affordable. Her group practice naturopath also offers. If I get it done overseas make sure they guide with ultrasound.

Advice: discomfort after physio exercises is to be expected. But next day it shouldn't feel worse. Make exercises every so many weeks. Combine with exercises other physio gave me. I can use the TENS machine I have, if it helps. Set at 80, maximum 15 minutes. But TENS. is not a replacement for physiotherapy exercises. Do yoga stretches daily or right before ride. Ice or heat, even one after the other - *whatever works for me*, data is contradictory. Do physio exercizes 5-7 X per week, every day is ideal. If hurst during walking [it does] take breaks, do a few physio exercises, try an ice pack.

MRI report synopsis: Not only is meniscus damaged but other parts too - ACL, posterior medial meniscus, exterior and interior of ligaments [sounded like everything!]

What to avoid?: Cortisone injections, surgery. Thai or other massage *if it hurts*.

How soon can I cycle again?: Her goal is not to discourage me from cycling but rather to get me back cycling gradually and safely. Cyclists are her clients. Suggested I start with ten minutes a day and increase by five minutes a day. But with breaks in between of no cycling. But don't do any cycling if squats are painful.

Will I heal 100%?: I will NOT be back to what I was like at 21 y.o.a. Now I must modify my activities.

Could I have prevented this knee condition by not have overdone cycling? [I do not recall her answer. I think she said there us no way of knowing, but as it is likely degenerative anything traumatic could have brought it on. Truly, it's not a useful question.]

Any alternative Asian therapies (TCM/Ayurveda) that might be useful?: acupuncture I could try. Of course she is biased, she took some acupuncture training. It's one if the certificates on her wall along with a reputable Canadian university and degrees with Honours.

Kineseogy tape any good?: I don't need. It is intended for athletes who cannot stop activities. She neither encouraged nor discouraged. She could have sold me some as it is anong the very few products they sell, but clearly it would not be the best use of my money/time. This impressed me - she didn't try to pump up the sale. [ Neither does my regular physio or in fact the Malaysian physio - they impress me more than physicians who usually prescribe some drug, which of course many get 'seminars' in Hawaii to learn about, plus free sanples - call me a cynic)

Only statement I find hard to believe: "Gradual increase in the number of reps if tired/sore" I will contact her if that was a typo and she meant "NOT tired/sore" I find this instruction counter-intuitive.

Only part of my notes I don't understand: She said something about a 'roller'.

.....................

Returning by bus with my bike I got into a long conversation with the driver who had had the same injury and at his physiotherapist he spent two years going twice a week to heal. My regular physio thought that 'crazy'. A serious racing cyclist he took down the name of Tara and the centre in Burnaby for his family.

Tonight's session at neighbourhood physio added another exercise, included some new (to me) therapy involving suction and electrical impulse, plus had me doing the usual four exercises, plus ball between knees squeeze, wobbly boards etc. She had me going for 80 minutes for the usual price of $50 which is supposed to be only 60 minutes. This clinic, Eagle Ridge Aquatic Center Physiotherapy I think is good. It's just a different standard of service. I was lucky tonight, somebody didn 't show up so I got more attention plus she wanted to expand on the session. She tells me I am making progress.