Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Framebuilders
Reload this Page >

Torches and Hole Saws

Notices
Framebuilders Thinking about a custom frame? Lugged vs Fillet Brazed. Different Frame materials? Newvex or Pacenti Lugs? why get a custom Road, Mountain, or Track Frame? Got a question about framebuilding? Lets discuss framebuilding at it's finest.

Torches and Hole Saws

Old 02-05-16, 03:19 PM
  #1  
eric044
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 345

Bikes: Nashbar Race SIS, Spalding Road Step Through Single Speed, Kent Road Single Speed, 630 Cruiser, Fuji Odessa mountain bike

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Torches and Hole Saws

Hi,

I am considering entering the world of framebuilding. It might be fun to try it with minimalist equipment at first. I have an inexpensive torch - Bernzomatic TS4000. Will this be of any use?

I have considered being more "from scratch" then some of the options I've seen. In other words, even if I can't sculpt all parts (e.g. dropouts), I may be abel to do without a sleeve or collar that is commonly used. My question is: what hole saw or similar device can be used for direct tube to tube attachments and how much power is required? If I want to do all the metal sculpting myself what type of equipment should I have?

Thank you for your consideration,

Eric
eric044 is offline  
Old 02-05-16, 04:42 PM
  #2  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 21,701

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 126 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2233 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 421 Posts
The Bernzomatic TS4000 appear to be a fuel/air torch, and as such may not produce enough heat to do a satisfactory job, particularly on heavy pieces like bottom brackets and fork crowns. Somewhat paradoxically, although the temperature of the flame may seem adequate, a low heat can actually create larger heat affected zones on the tubing because of the length of time needed to bring the parts up to working temperature. A hotter flame will allow the part to come to temperature quickly, flow the brass/sliver in quickly and get out before the heat affected zone spreads too far up the tubes. In short, I think you'll have a much better experience if you can get a fuel/oxygen torch set-up. Oxy-acetylene is a very hot flame, but oxy-propane is more than adequate.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 02-05-16, 05:22 PM
  #3  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 24,725
Mentioned: 196 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11717 Post(s)
Liked 1,025 Times in 798 Posts
Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
Oxy-acetylene is a very hot flame, but oxy-propane is more than adequate.
There are some micro oxy-propane torches that use disposable cannisters, but I'd encourage you to consider picking up a small oxyacetylene torch. Or, with the oxygen tank and regulators, you might get away with a standard RV propane tank, at least the old ones would work with acetylene regulators.

Oxypropane tips are slightly different than oxyacetylene tips, and require a small hole drilled in the end.

In many places, you can snag a used torch, pair of regulators, and pair of tanks for about $300.

The tanks about 3' tall are virtually 100% owner tanks and easy to exchange (in the USA). The tanks about 5' tall are usually rentals. Don't buy them.

There are also refillable tanks, about 1 1/2 feet tall. They might be good for very occasional use.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 02-05-16, 05:44 PM
  #4  
Andrew R Stewart 
Senior Member
 
Andrew R Stewart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 13,762

Bikes: Stewart S&S coupled sport tourer, Stewart Sunday light, Stewart Commuting, Stewart Touring, Co Motion Tandem, Stewart 3-Spd, Stewart Track, Fuji Finest, Raleigh Pro, Trek Cycle Cross, Mongoose tomac ATB, GT Bravado ATB, JCP Folder

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2493 Post(s)
Liked 558 Times in 432 Posts
I agree that an O/A torch will give the best results and be the most flexible for varied needs. As to the tubing cutter question. A hack saw, bench grinder and files do a lot for real cheap. You'll be needing tube blocks no matter what cutting method you use. Wood ones are easy to make yourself.

Check out my posts here. I started out doing everything by hand and making full sized drawings. I have written about not jigs building and aligning before. Andy.
Andrew R Stewart is offline  
Old 02-12-16, 01:01 PM
  #5  
velonomad
Older I get, Better I was
 
velonomad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nc
Posts: 1,763
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I built frames as a hobby for a number of years using a MAPP gas torch. Both lugs and fillet, I brazed my last one in 2011. Had a helluva time getting it hot enough to braze especially around the fork crown and drop-outs. Then I found out that as of 2008 MAPP gas was no longer being produced. What has replaced it is not as hot. I had to borrow a Oxy/Acetylene setup to finish the fork and dropouts . You can get by just fine if you are using thin lugs and tubing with 45%-50% silver. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAPP_gas


I tried a holesaw in one of those cheapo jigs you get from JEGS or Summit racing. Great for mitering .083 mild tubing in a race car. Lousy for .028 bicycle tubing.
velonomad is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
TiHabanero
Framebuilders
4
04-17-19 04:14 PM
BigPoser
Framebuilders
21
01-22-18 08:51 PM
jaredanderson
Framebuilders
24
02-04-15 03:58 PM
triathloner
Framebuilders
5
02-01-12 09:56 PM
mudboy
Framebuilders
13
02-16-10 09:17 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.