What is the benefit of a Pursuit frame? Aero? Control? Power transfer? Or simply none? Might buy a pursuit frame like this

To ride in the event??? Really what else maters on the track? And pursuit is a track racing event.

But to the broader aspect of specific to an event frame- Pursuit can be individual or team. Both have a large aero aspect to deal with but the team event also has drafting. So a short front center to place the rider closer to the one in front is often considered. Otherwise a pursuit frame is much like a timetrial one. Light, aero, stable, no need for a high BB (even on a steeply banked track, these bikes don't live at slow speeds on the banking). And also like time trial bikes the wheelbase is of less consideration then most feel. Except for that first lap the power out put is pretty constant, no sprint like power or tossing about of the bike. No need for high maneuverability.

But this is racing, human competition and the rider's ego and mind set are very important too. So a wild design for some mean they try harder. I just don't agree with the rideability of many of these wild designs. Andy

I should have put this to the OP. Are you racing on the track? How good are you? Will some very slight mechanical difference mean you win more?

I see a lot of the "if I got a fancier bike I would place better" in the tri world all the time, when the better wish is to be able to train better. So will this bike make you a better racer?

im just making the best out of my money for what we call "Marginal Gains". Well, this year or next year i will participate in a fixed criterium not a velodrome race. Sooo is this frame still suitable?? (:

that is a radical position and probably isn't suitable for a fixed criterium. Unless it is very short distance race. Can you set that bike up for a comfortable position? The Red Hook races I see, nobody is in that position, they are in a normal road racing position.

The interesting thing about the bike you have shown is that the seat tube does not seem to be particularly steep. There is a minimum hip angle that leads to effective pedaling. Generally, a bike with a low front end like that will have a steep seat angle to keep the hip angle above that minimum. It occurs to me that nobody is going to ride that bike in the drops, so maybe the position isn't as low as it looks.

eta: I just went and watched some videos of pursuiters to get an idea about their position. I suggest you do the same. They all have time trial bars, which are usually not allowed in crits for very good reasons. They would have bullhorns at about the same height as the top tube on the bike you have shown. Then aero bars in the center. Putting drops on a pursuit frame is going to end up with unusable drops, that's not what the builder intended. You want a bike with drops at about the same height as that top tube, so a more normal geometry is called for. A pursuit frame would put you at a distinct disadvantage in a mass start race.

i see, But how bout the Slope Geo? Like a Dolan Pre cursa. Is the normal geo still better in crits?

Pursuit races, unless team events, is 2 people starting on opposite sides of the track, trying to catch each other , hence the name..

team pursuit is 2 teams of 4, starting on opposite sides of the track ..

the hour is a pursuit race with only the clock to chase ,.... Moser had a much different bike to try to match Merckx's Hour distance..

Eddy went to high altitude to reduce air density and thus air resistance .. Moser went for more aero a bike , to beat that ... 50.808 km.. vs 49.431 km

Wiggins holds the current best at 54.526 km ...







....

The truth is that you can probably set the frame up differently and put yourself in the same position as an '"deal" frame. The sloping top tube is largely visual because it appeals to the old school funny bike crowd.

I imagine a high bottom bracket is required in a fixed gear crit. I'm sure most people ride a match sprint track bike if they don't have one custom made. The only Dolan Pre Cursa pictures I see have level top tubes, which is good. You want to be able to race in the drops, so that limits your saddle-handlebar drop. You really need to figure out your position first.

Is anybody still making/riding bikes like the OP's bike?

Both 700c wheels?

With the bike configured as above, one likely has a rider that is 6'5" or so, with the smallest frame possible.

Is the stem too short there?

That actually looks more like a vintage-ish retro bike with standard drops than anything that I'd expect to see on a course today.

Brakeless with compact drop bars (which are designed for brake positioning)?

Urban messengers trying to look cool riding inappropriate fixies?

Oh, what do they ride in the midnight Redhook Fixie Crash Fests?

The bike in the OP is meant for time trial bars. Putting the drops on there makes it look funny. And when you have a ridiculous seat to bar drop, having a short stem is pretty much the only way to make it rideable. There are plenty of bikes like that still made. Although pursuit is a specialty that not that many people pursue to the degree that they have a specialized bike for it.

I did go look at red hook crit bikes on google images. They are almost all riding level top tube bikes with about a normal (for racers) seat to bar drop. And road bars. They are all racing in the drops, nobody has a position so radical that they can't do that. There was a frame with a top tube that sloped to the front, but they did that by raising the back of the top tube.

I guarantee whoever rides the bike in the op never gets in the drops, they are always riding around on the top of the bars. Not good for racing.

I tracked down the bike in the OP. Most people either have bullhorns on it or even riser straight bars. Didn't find one set up for racing.

I wouldn't be surprised if someone could ride the OP's bike for an hour or two in the drops, or with the forearms flat on the bar tops (clamp-on TT bars?). I would have done a slightly different bar choice myself.

I need to get this one out on the road again.



It is a fun bike to ride, and one can get very flat when down fully stretched out. But, I will admit that I never got used to the position with a little over 500 miles on it.

It seems like the bike should be fast, but I can't say that I was really any faster riding that bike than my Colnago C-40.

In general, I do think I get a bit of a boost from going low, but perhaps not THAT LOW.

First off, this aint my bike hahaha. And guess you're all right. I need a high bb for crits so cornering would be easy. But having a low bb means stable in sprinting?

You can learn to sprint on anything. It's really hard to sprint while you are on the ground. Track bikes have traditionally had high bottom brackets because of the banking.

It looks to me that Red Hook courses are laid out to have fairly gradual corners for the most part. What kind of course are you going to be riding on?

not as sharp like red hook. And a few turning points cause crits here in ph arent that developed. Soooo normal or slope geo suits?

The slope means nothing to the geometry really. It's just highlighting a short head tube.

It really goes back to your position and what size bike you would ride on the road. I think I would still want a fairly high bottom bracket because you never know when you are going to be forced into a bad line. I am pretty sure that a good, powerful position would look funny on the sloped geometry, if it's even possible. I understand if you like the look of the sloped geometry, but what's the use if you are dropped because your position is not good? I guess your bike will look good until the organizers pull you from the race. I can assure you from personal experience that is no fun.

The only frame that has a high bb that i know is a Cinelli Vigorelli. Other than that, nothing else. Unless i order a custom made crmo frame from our local frame builder (you can check him out in the internet, he's a grest and famous man here in ph) but it will take some time and its "heavy" compared to alu frames

frame Builder's name is ave maldea

I find that hard to believe. Fixed gear road bikes also generally have high bottom brackets. You need that for safe city riding.

Since this is the framebuilder's forum, I have to urge you to get the custom. Can't be _that_ much heavier than the average aluminum bike. Can you ride one?

I will second this point. I have a friend that before she went and started her bike company was building for local friends. One friend (still is) designed what was a Euro Influenced "funny" bike with a 24" ft wheel and bull horns (this was in 1982 or so). He was so proud of it and did some local racing on it. When the big circus came to our area (the Canandaigua Cup, a National Prestige Series event IIRC) and he showed up with his bike the officials wouldn't let him use it. Something about safety (this long before the current UCI rules about dimensions and design). He rode his normal bike and still had fun but as much as he wasn't on his funny bike Andy.

I meant getting pulled because you are about to be lapped. Never had the other kind of experience.

I have had a few of them. Some uncomfortable and some tolerable. I have read a lot about them and to me it seems the biggest benefit is in the drafting.

Custom Frame, very well then. And by the way, most of fixed gear frames that are being sold here in the ph isnt about "Crits or Velodrome". Its about the street creed and looks and whatnot thats why many people recommend having a 165mm crank arm (which i have) to ease in the cornering

Sure, but that's not a lot shorter than a 170mm crank. I'm sure most of the fixed gear bikes sold everywhere in the world are intended for street use. Good luck with your race