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I have My Mill back

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I have My Mill back

Old 10-02-19, 08:37 PM
  #1  
Andrew R Stewart 
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I have My Mill back

Well it never left but it has been out of commission for a while. Today I made the knee's way wipers and completed the reassembly with the table's fitting. I find that adjusting gibs is much like adjusting hubs, It's really nice when the tables slides so smooth with no slop.

What did I do? I removed the table and saddle, cleaned the knee bevel gears, slotted the Y axis feed screw nut for lash adjustment, replaced the feed screws bearings (just like a bike hub but really big and high forces needed), replaced the old and hardened "rubber" wipers with felt and pressure plates and ordered some low cost digital read out scales for install soon.

My first cutting project will be a part that allows my new jig to mount to a Park stand. Andy




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Old 10-03-19, 05:38 AM
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I have that same mill, but mine has a Jet label on it. I have had a DRO on the wish list for a while, so I don't have to deal with the huge amount of backlash on the X axis. Otherwise, it has served me well.
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Old 10-03-19, 05:49 AM
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some mills have a nut that can be split to get rid of backlash. My lathe had that built in, there was a floating nut and a nut cast into the cross slide. When I got it, the only thing driving the cross slide was the anti-backlash nut, the other nut had been wallowed out.
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Old 11-20-22, 12:40 PM
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Hey Andrew, got any more info on your Samson JRH 33? Iím looking at buying one thatís on marketplace. Just curious as to spindle taper? Metric? Year built? The one Iím looking at is similar, but has some variations. Same tag and model number though. Just trying to get to the bottom of this before I drive an hour and a half out to look at it. Thanks Andrew!
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Old 11-20-22, 01:38 PM
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I'm not Andrew, but does it come with any tooling? I suspect most of them come with R8, but if they didn't then Andy's doesn't really tell you what the one you are looking at comes with.
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Old 11-20-22, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by hurrydive View Post
Hey Andrew, got any more info on your Samson JRH 33? Iím looking at buying one thatís on marketplace. Just curious as to spindle taper? Metric? Year built? The one Iím looking at is similar, but has some variations. Same tag and model number though. Just trying to get to the bottom of this before I drive an hour and a half out to look at it. Thanks Andrew!
My mill tuns off a 120V 20A house line. Spindle taper is R8 with a home made draw bar. Weighs about 900lbs. Not sure of the year of birth but I suspect early 1980s. It has a mix of metric and SAE threads on various fittings.

If you do get the mill and if it includes any manual type info could you share? Here's another forum's post I started some years back on my mill. I still check the forum out time to time. Sampson Mill- aka Husky, Grizzly Questions | The Hobby-Machinist Andy
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Old 11-20-22, 02:05 PM
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Andy - I have never built a frame and most likely will never. But MAN!... I see you getting this stuff together and I get really EXCITED!!! Yep... It's frame builder Porn for sure...

HAPPY HAPPY, JOY JOY!!!
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Old 11-20-22, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I'm not Andrew, but does it come with any tooling? I suspect most of them come with R8, but if they didn't then Andy's doesn't really tell you what the one you are looking at comes with.
no tooling that I know ofÖ only one way to find out. Got to go look at it. Thanks for the response!
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Old 11-20-22, 05:15 PM
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For those looking for an intermediate size floor model vertical mill, there are 2 to try and find. An Index Model 40 H and a Clausing model 8520 or 30 or 8525 and 35. They have enough mass to provide better results but are also small enough that if can be taken apart and moved. Years ago I had an Index Model 40H and by taking it apart, I could get it in my basement using a dolly. These are more desirable than bench top models. Those can't take very big cuts. Of course a full size model is best but often their size and cost prevents them from being an option where space or finances are limited.
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Old 11-20-22, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
For those looking for an intermediate size floor model vertical mill, there are 2 to try and find. An Index Model 40 H and a Clausing model 8520 or 30 or 8525 and 35. They have enough mass to provide better results but are also small enough that if can be taken apart and moved. Years ago I had an Index Model 40H and by taking it apart, I could get it in my basement using a dolly. These are more desirable than bench top models. Those can't take very big cuts. Of course a full size model is best but often their size and cost prevents them from being an option where space or finances are limited.
Iíve been looking for a vertical mill of one kind or another for a good 9 months. 2 months ago, I went out on the road for work. To the SF Bay Area. So was looking for mills there. Nothing really caught my fancy. So finally, when I got home, I checked my local Craigslist out of habit. I live in a podunk tiny town. Like 2,000 people. Nothing pops up on CL. Weíll a prestine Clausing 8520 with a Kurt 675 and 8Ē rotary table was available. Guy lived like 1 mile from me. Asking $1250 for it all. By the time I saw it, I was the fourth in line. Did not manifest. So I kinda got a thing against clausing 8520s now. Thanks for the tips haha. But itís a sore subject.
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Old 11-20-22, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by hurrydive View Post
I’ve been looking for a vertical mill of one kind or another for a good 9 months. 2 months ago, I went out on the road for work. To the SF Bay Area. So was looking for mills there. Nothing really caught my fancy. So finally, when I got home, I checked my local Craigslist out of habit. I live in a podunk tiny town. Like 2,000 people. Nothing pops up on CL. We’ll a prestine Clausing 8520 with a Kurt 675 and 8” rotary table was available. Guy lived like 1 mile from me. Asking $1250 for it all. By the time I saw it, I was the fourth in line. Did not manifest. So I kinda got a thing against clausing 8520s now. Thanks for the tips haha. But it’s a sore subject.
I have a similar story about a very nice Clausing 10" lathe. They are very desirable in the hobby world. Years ago I saw one in the classifieds where my in-laws live. I call the guy and he only wanted $2000 for it loaded with tooling. It was like new he said because he bought it new and hardly ever used it. He said he was sorry but someone called about 2 hours before and bought it. A few months later we go again to visit and again I look in the classifieds and there was the lathe listed again. Of course I call him and again he says he is sorry but he just sold it. I said how is that possible? He said the former buyer didn't come through so he relisted it again. So that lathe bummed me out twice.
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Old 11-20-22, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug Fattic View Post
I have a similar story about a very nice Clausing 10" lathe. They are very desirable in the hobby world. Years ago I saw one in the classifieds where my in-laws live. I call the guy and he only wanted $2000 for it loaded with tooling. It was like new he said because he bought it new and hardly ever used it. He said he was sorry but someone called about 2 hours before and bought it. A few months later we go again to visit and again I look in the classifieds and there was the lathe listed again. Of course I call him and again he says he is sorry but he just sold it. I said how is that possible? He said the former buyer didn't come through so he relisted it again. So that lathe bummed me out twice.
I feel way better about myself now. At least it was only once. But twiceÖ hot damn. Well, at least itís a pretty good pitty party we are having. Canít wait to miss another deal to share with you! Haha. F it.
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Old 11-20-22, 08:36 PM
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Had a Clausing 85208525 been available when i was looking I likely would have bought it. But in hindsight and with more experience I am glad that my mill has a R8 spindle taper and not a M2 or B&S #7 taper. The amount of tooling for R8 is vastly more common than those other two tapers. And the cost of tooling should not be ignored as one can spend many hundreds of $ after the mill is in place and tunning (not always a given with used stuff)

BTW the 30" table my mill has limits what tooling I can leave in place. This is usually the angle vise that I do most of the tube mitering in and the 6" Kurt copy fixed vise I do most all the other work in. Now I have an 8" rotary table and wish it too could live on the milling table all the time. Andy
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Old 11-20-22, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Had a Clausing 85208525 been available when i was looking I likely would have bought it. But in hindsight and with more experience I am glad that my mill has a R8 spindle taper and not a M2 or B&S #7 taper. The amount of tooling for R8 is vastly more common than those other two tapers. And the cost of tooling should not be ignored as one can spend many hundreds of $ after the mill is in place and tunning (not always a given with used stuff)

BTW the 30" table my mill has limits what tooling I can leave in place. This is usually the angle vise that I do most of the tube mitering in and the 6" Kurt copy fixed vise I do most all the other work in. Now I have an 8" rotary table and wish it too could live on the milling table all the time. Andy
many advice is good advice, and I agree. The mill Iím looking for is only for tube mitering and jig fixture makingÖ only. Haha. So yeah a 30Ē will get crowded. Im hoping this Samson is an r8. Trying to meet the guy but with turkey day around the bend, itíll be a hot minute. Thanks for any and all advice. Im all ears. Just trying to make bikes here, easier than it sounds.
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Old 11-21-22, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Had a Clausing 85208525 been available when i was looking I likely would have bought it. But in hindsight and with more experience I am glad that my mill has a R8 spindle taper and not a M2 or B&S #7 taper. Andy
I have a Clausing 8520 that has a lot of backlash. I put a $300 DRO on it a few years ago and haven't looked back. Much easier on the eyes than counting ticks. =) But, the M2 collet is a pain. It significantly limits my tooling and/or I have to use an adaptor and lose precision. On the flip side, It isn't really stiff enough to handle most of the R8 tooling I would LIKE to use on it so I probably keeps me out of trouble.
The GOOD part, like yours, is that it is sub-1000 lbs. I use an engine hoist to semi-permanently mount it on a set of wheels to more easily move it around the shop/garage.
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Old 11-21-22, 03:38 PM
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Memory Lane! I used that mill (labeled Jet) for 10 years at Davidson. The next shop I worked at after that had a real Bridgeport, and it was better of course for many things, but the little Jet had some advantages. For example the whole head with the pulleys on top (guard taken off) fit inside the main triangle of a frame (medium frames and larger) allowing you to mill out the seat tube socket of a BB shell for a seat tube replacement. Sweating the tube out hot is faster, but there's nasty cleanup needed after, and some extra heat damage, so getting the tube out cold was my preferred way for delicate lightweights and/or "special" (valuable) frames.

It seems like practically every day I run into some project or idea I could do if I had a mill... it really bugs me to not have one! Just no room to put one, in this tiny house. I do have a lathe, and some light milling can be done on it, but ooh what I wouldn't do to have room for that little mill! No benchtop hobbyist mill can compare with a real (but small) knee mill like Andrew's. Want!

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Old 11-21-22, 08:30 PM
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The one machine I haven't seen listed in the small, but solid category is the Deckel FP-1. Very sturdy (~1500 lbs.), small (~3'x4' floor space), both vertical and horizontal tables and spindles, and lots of very cool accessories. Unfortunately, they have a bit of a cult following, so are hard to find a deal on. I have been super happy with mine and would highly suggest getting one if you can find one. They take a bit of getting used to as you stand on the side of the machine when operating.

Last edited by Devin Rickey; 11-21-22 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Picture ended up in the wrong place...
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Old 11-22-22, 11:14 AM
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I always wanted a deckel, but the availability is poor. I have been told they are a bit annoying to set up because the machine is in the way. For most things that wouldn't be particularly important though.
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Old 11-22-22, 01:30 PM
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I have a Bridgeport (with R8 collets) and a South Bend vertical mill. Their mills are not nearly as common as their lathes. I like both because I live just north of South Bend and often drive by where the factory used to stand. They tore it down and Grizzly bought the name.

My South Bend mill is not quite as big as the Bridgeport. I forget what collets it uses but I have a bunch of them and they get up to a 3/4" size. Because I have a full range of collets and they go to a much bigger size than a Morse Taper #2, they are not inconvenient to use. The advantage is that because they don't use R8 collets, they are not as desirable to buy and are priced cheaper. One sold at auction near me a few weeks ago for $510. It was a bit rusty and needed some clean up but vertical mills are so much better for framebuilding than a drill press.

Here is a picture of my South Bend with an Anvil tube mitering accessory attached. That greenish tool beside it converts the spindle motion to horizontal.

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Old 11-23-22, 01:05 PM
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I got to use it during my class!
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Old 11-23-22, 04:35 PM
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Doug's Anvil mitering fixture wasn't there when I did the brazing class. We used his old one that is based on a huge collet chuck, the collets were swapped out for each tube diameter. I was so impressed with that mitering fixture that I found a 16J collet chuck for my own mitering fixture. Sadly, it sits still in the UPS box. If anyone is interested in it let me know: Andy
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Old 11-26-22, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
Doug's Anvil mitering fixture wasn't there when I did the brazing class. We used his old one that is based on a huge collet chuck, the collets were swapped out for each tube diameter. I was so impressed with that mitering fixture that I found a 16J collet chuck for my own mitering fixture. Sadly, it sits still in the UPS box. If anyone is interested in it let me know: Andy
I still use my mitering fixture based on holding a tube in a collet. The reason I like it is because some tube holding systems distort the tube somewhat when its jaws are closed tight enough to firmly hold the tube from moving. This is especially true with 2 V block holders. I went on a long quest to figure out how to machine miter tubes after I got back from my apprenticeship in England. It started with getting a South Bend lathe and then progressed to using my Bridgeport by turning its head to the miter angle. All of those methods were problematic. Finally I had an engineer design one that used collets and the fixture adjusted to the angle instead of mill head. Works great. However it has a personality that I understand how to work with. The Anvil mitering fixture is easier for my students to use so that is why I use it for students taking my class.

One of the key features I like about this fixture is its ease of adjusting to the correct angle. An eyebolt can be powered to make slight angle adjustments by turning a nut on the eyebolt pushing against a steel block. My Ukrainian made fixtures can reveal the slightest miter angle deviation that allows me to tell if I got my miter exactly right. Most fixtures are adjusted to the miter while mine does the opposite. As a result it reveals any miter angle defects. If I choose to remiter the tube, I can make the smallest revision by barely turning that nut on the eyebolt.

My mitering fixture on the Bridgeport. In the background you can see my spare oxygen concentrator. The bicycle hanging all the way to the right was made in Kharkov by the XB3 company.

A close up shot

This picture shows the collet and the eyebolt that can microadjust the angle
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