oxy outfit recommendations?
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oxy outfit recommendations?
Any recommendations for a beginning frame builders oxyacetylene outfit? I'm trying to keep it under or around $200, without tanks. Uses for now would be for chopping up old frames and putting them back together. (tall bikes, etc.) Just got the Paterak manual too, so I'm hoping to start brazing frames this summer. Thanks
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Victor Firepower fits the bill. You are going to want to add a couple extra tips but these are pretty cheap and readily available considering they are Victor compatable.
https://www.sjdiscounttools.com/fpw0384-0656.html
https://www.sjdiscounttools.com/fpw0384-0656.html
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Thanks. Was also looking at the victor compatible kits on ebay that go for around 90 bucks. Anyone have any opinion on these? https://cgi.ebay.com/VICTOR-Comp-Oxy-...QQcmdZViewItem
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Originally Posted by fiver
Thanks. Was also looking at the victor compatible kits on ebay that go for around 90 bucks. Anyone have any opinion on these?
Get Victor equipment!
I've had mine for 20 years, and they work as well now as when I bought them.
When it comes to investing in a tool, buy the best you can afford. If you can't afford the best, keep saving.
I have been collecting Thomas the Tank Engine for over 10 years. If I see something on eBay that says Thomas compatable, I pass. Some of the characters I have, are now orth over $200. (they were $10 when I bought them.)
Good stuff will always retain its value and worth.
So get Victor welding torches.
Oooops, didn't I say that already?
Get Victor, because nothing costs less than the best!
like that?...?
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That's what I thought. Just wanted to check in with the pros. Also, how important is it to have a built in arrester? I want to be safe, but before going to welding/fabrication school next fall I am mostly interested in the budget package to get my hands in it in the meantime. Later on I will invest in better equipment.
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Victors Super Range II runs about $250. It is rated for heavier duty. This is what I have and I am not sorry about the extra cost. Arrestors are required in some form to prevent flashback. You might as well get good stuff now. You will throw money away on something cheep and good equipment is easier to learn with.
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Originally Posted by fiver
Any recommendations for a beginning frame builders oxyacetylene outfit? I'm trying to keep it under or around $200, without tanks. Uses for now would be for chopping up old frames and putting them back together. (tall bikes, etc.) Just got the Paterak manual too, so I'm hoping to start brazing frames this summer. Thanks
1. Victor "J" series (J-28 and the older J-27)
2. Smith AW-1 (better tip selection than the Victor)
3. PREST-O-LITE W-200 (Now peddled by ESAB, I believe)
4. Harris model 15 (Aircraft Spruce sells these)
I would recommend buying just the torch, a few smaller sized tips and 25' of new, 3/16" hose. Then hunt down a set of cheaper, single stage regulators like the Victor S-250 series. I would avoid used regulators and hoses.
BTW, your "chopping up" is best done with a quality "high tension" hacksaw or an 4" angle grinder. Torch cutting attachments are nice for dissecting a '59 Buick, but rarely used for bike building.
Last edited by PuttPutt; 12-29-06 at 02:26 AM.
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Potentually, one of the best bargins (in aircraft torches) on ebay right now. It is very similar to the Victor J-28 (Victor "J" series tips can even be used). Uniweld has been around a long time - decent stuff (one of my backup torches is the model 71). https://cgi.ebay.com/New-Uniweld-Oxya...QQcmdZViewItem
I know nothing about this seller, so you're on-your-own if you decide to bid.
I know nothing about this seller, so you're on-your-own if you decide to bid.
Last edited by PuttPutt; 12-28-06 at 11:42 PM.
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Meeco midget is also cheapish, and it's a better choice for people who want to do a fair amoutn of welding on whatever at the same time. The stick handles are better for the brazing crowd.
Some of the regulator assemblies have FB arrestors in them, and others need them added externally. So if your cheaper units aren't so equipt then you may end up paying more in the end where you would have been better off buying the better units in the first place.
tinmantech.com
Some of the regulator assemblies have FB arrestors in them, and others need them added externally. So if your cheaper units aren't so equipt then you may end up paying more in the end where you would have been better off buying the better units in the first place.
tinmantech.com
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I'd go along with what Putt Putt said, about the smaller torches used for aircraft steel. (I personally use TIG, but that's a different story)
Also, I'd add a flashback arrester if it doesn't come with one. Also, very important to learn how to SAFELY turn your rig on and off, adjust it and bleed it down when finished. - very important. Torches can be dangerous if not used properly.
Also, I'd add a flashback arrester if it doesn't come with one. Also, very important to learn how to SAFELY turn your rig on and off, adjust it and bleed it down when finished. - very important. Torches can be dangerous if not used properly.
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I would recommend just buying the Victor setup and be done with it. Their portable unit is around $300 but comes with one tip, cutting attachment, and the tanks. I try to stay away from cheap tools because in one way or another they often become dangerous or break. The last place that I want cut corners is with torch setup. I have seen the Lincoln setup at Home Depot which is basically the same setup as the Victor but also about the same price. I would just shell out the extra $30 or $40 and get the Victor setup.
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I would not buy one of those HD sized units for bike building. They are mostly cutitng torches for steel fabrication. For beginers in particular there is a lot of time moving a torch around to get a well brazed frame. The heavy units are vastly overweight for the work involved. Paternek estimates the bottom bracket is an hours work for the Newby. It's delicate and involves precise placement of the flame, off the work and between orther tubes and fixtures. You just won't have the control. Sure try it if you want a big cutting torch.
Also check out your local gas supplier. Mine charges basically the same price regardless of the size of the bottles. So you are going to get ripped for the amount of gas that a HD compact unit accepts. You want standard size bottles they aren't too big anyway.
Also check out your local gas supplier. Mine charges basically the same price regardless of the size of the bottles. So you are going to get ripped for the amount of gas that a HD compact unit accepts. You want standard size bottles they aren't too big anyway.
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Originally Posted by Peterpan1
I would not buy one of those HD sized units for bike building. They are mostly cutitng torches for steel fabrication. For beginers in particular there is a lot of time moving a torch around to get a well brazed frame. The heavy units are vastly overweight for the work involved. Paternek estimates the bottom bracket is an hours work for the Newby. It's delicate and involves precise placement of the flame, off the work and between orther tubes and fixtures. You just won't have the control. Sure try it if you want a big cutting torch.
Also check out your local gas supplier. Mine charges basically the same price regardless of the size of the bottles. So you are going to get ripped for the amount of gas that a HD compact unit accepts. You want standard size bottles they aren't too big anyway.
Also check out your local gas supplier. Mine charges basically the same price regardless of the size of the bottles. So you are going to get ripped for the amount of gas that a HD compact unit accepts. You want standard size bottles they aren't too big anyway.
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Originally Posted by Nessism
I have one of the cheap Victor setups, use tips from 0 - 3 when building frames, and haven't found handle bulk to be an issue.
Assembling a quality OA framebuilding setup piecemeal can be expensive, to be sure. But it only needs to be done ONCE.
Last edited by PuttPutt; 01-01-07 at 02:40 PM.
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Here's another possibility;
https://cgi.ebay.com/VICTOR-BRAZING-W...QQcmdZViewItem
Torch looks like a Victor J-28 w/#4 or #5 tip. I'm always leary of used, but this set is definately inviting.
And here's an additional (size #1) tip for the above torch;
https://cgi.ebay.com/Victor-acetylene...QQcmdZViewItem
https://cgi.ebay.com/VICTOR-BRAZING-W...QQcmdZViewItem
Torch looks like a Victor J-28 w/#4 or #5 tip. I'm always leary of used, but this set is definately inviting.
And here's an additional (size #1) tip for the above torch;
https://cgi.ebay.com/Victor-acetylene...QQcmdZViewItem
Last edited by PuttPutt; 01-03-07 at 03:32 AM.
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Puttputt's ebay torch talk inspired me to bid, and win, a brand new Harris oxygen regulator for a great price! https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...4769&rd=1&rd=1
Ebay seems to be a great place to find this kind of stuff – I was able to buy a high quality heavy-duty regulator for less money than the value priced economy ones usually sell for at the local welding supply houses. So now I’m going to have to chase down a matching acetylene regulator…I’m a sucker for a deal
Ebay seems to be a great place to find this kind of stuff – I was able to buy a high quality heavy-duty regulator for less money than the value priced economy ones usually sell for at the local welding supply houses. So now I’m going to have to chase down a matching acetylene regulator…I’m a sucker for a deal
#19
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I would go for an Inert Gas arc welder. There is one serious drawback to oxy-acetylene, and that is explosion hazard. Your homeowners insurance rate will be TRIPLED if your insurance agent finds out you've got oxy-acetylene in the house.
Assuming you don't tell your insurance agent, and your house blows up, the insurance carrier won't pay your claim.
Assuming you don't tell your insurance agent, and your house blows up, the insurance carrier won't pay your claim.
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Originally Posted by hotbike
I would go for an Inert Gas arc welder. There is one serious drawback to oxy-acetylene, and that is explosion hazard. Your homeowners insurance rate will be TRIPLED if your insurance agent finds out you've got oxy-acetylene in the house.
Assuming you don't tell your insurance agent, and your house blows up, the insurance carrier won't pay your claim.
Assuming you don't tell your insurance agent, and your house blows up, the insurance carrier won't pay your claim.
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Originally Posted by hotbike
I would go for an Inert Gas arc welder.
Originally Posted by hotbike
There is one serious drawback to oxy-acetylene, and that is explosion hazard.
Last edited by PuttPutt; 01-05-07 at 03:14 PM.
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Re: Regulators
Like the torch, OA regulators come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and are often taylored to specific applications. Many will work fine for frame building, some will not. So, how do we determine the difference?
Victor, for example, embeds valuable information in the model number. Looking at a Victor SR250B-540, we can determine the following:
The "SR" means it employs single stage regulation. Not the best, but certainly doable. If the Victor model # began with "VTS", then this would indicate that it is a more desireable (and expensive) "dual stage". Dual stage regs provide a smoother and more consistant gas flow, and the operator isn't bothered with constant regulator tweaking as bottle pressures drop.
The "250" is capacity, with larger numbers indicating larger capacities. (i.e. Victor 250, 350, 450, 700, etc). Any of these sizes will suffice for most frame building.
The lonely "B" tells us its effective "delivery range" in psig. With most torch work on bike frames being done with smaller tips and line pressures well below 10 psi, (I use 4 to 6 psi), the "A" and "B" stamped regs are preferred. The "C" and "D" regs will do, but flow regulation suffers and regulator adjustments become overly sensitive at their lowest delivery pressures. (I have a VTS450D which simply shuts-off when any attempt is made to adjust it below 6 psi.)
A = 2 to 15 psi
B = 2 to 40 psi
C = 4 to 80 psi
D = 5 to 125 psi
The "540" tells us it is for oxygen and uses a CGA-540 inlet fitting. If the regulator is stamped "510", then we know it's for acetylene and likely has a CGA-510 inlet fitting installed.
***********************************************************************************
When buying regulators, always ask for the model number - then refer to the manufacture's specifications to determine if it's suitable for what you plan to use it for. Also, avoid purchasing or using ANY regulator whos line pressure gauge (aka. low pressure gauge) displays ANY + or - reading when it is detached from the bottle.
Like the torch, OA regulators come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and are often taylored to specific applications. Many will work fine for frame building, some will not. So, how do we determine the difference?
Victor, for example, embeds valuable information in the model number. Looking at a Victor SR250B-540, we can determine the following:
The "SR" means it employs single stage regulation. Not the best, but certainly doable. If the Victor model # began with "VTS", then this would indicate that it is a more desireable (and expensive) "dual stage". Dual stage regs provide a smoother and more consistant gas flow, and the operator isn't bothered with constant regulator tweaking as bottle pressures drop.
The "250" is capacity, with larger numbers indicating larger capacities. (i.e. Victor 250, 350, 450, 700, etc). Any of these sizes will suffice for most frame building.
The lonely "B" tells us its effective "delivery range" in psig. With most torch work on bike frames being done with smaller tips and line pressures well below 10 psi, (I use 4 to 6 psi), the "A" and "B" stamped regs are preferred. The "C" and "D" regs will do, but flow regulation suffers and regulator adjustments become overly sensitive at their lowest delivery pressures. (I have a VTS450D which simply shuts-off when any attempt is made to adjust it below 6 psi.)
A = 2 to 15 psi
B = 2 to 40 psi
C = 4 to 80 psi
D = 5 to 125 psi
The "540" tells us it is for oxygen and uses a CGA-540 inlet fitting. If the regulator is stamped "510", then we know it's for acetylene and likely has a CGA-510 inlet fitting installed.
***********************************************************************************
When buying regulators, always ask for the model number - then refer to the manufacture's specifications to determine if it's suitable for what you plan to use it for. Also, avoid purchasing or using ANY regulator whos line pressure gauge (aka. low pressure gauge) displays ANY + or - reading when it is detached from the bottle.
Last edited by PuttPutt; 01-06-07 at 02:32 AM.
#23
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Hey guys. So I ended buying a victor firepower on ebay . Take a look. https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140071142390
Thought it was a pretty good deal, fits my price range. Let me know if it seems like I will need to buy any extra tips or anything. Thanks for all the suggetons.
matt
Thought it was a pretty good deal, fits my price range. Let me know if it seems like I will need to buy any extra tips or anything. Thanks for all the suggetons.
matt
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Originally Posted by fiver
Hey guys. So I ended buying a victor firepower on ebay . Take a look. https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140071142390
Thought it was a pretty good deal, fits my price range. Let me know if it seems like I will need to buy any extra tips or anything. Thanks for all the suggetons.
matt
Thought it was a pretty good deal, fits my price range. Let me know if it seems like I will need to buy any extra tips or anything. Thanks for all the suggetons.
matt
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Originally Posted by fiver
Hey guys. So I ended buying a victor firepower on ebay . Take a look. https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=140071142390
Thought it was a pretty good deal, fits my price range. Let me know if it seems like I will need to buy any extra tips or anything. Thanks for all the suggetons.
matt
Thought it was a pretty good deal, fits my price range. Let me know if it seems like I will need to buy any extra tips or anything. Thanks for all the suggetons.
matt
Check the number on the barrel of the tips when you get it - should say something like "2-W-J". The first number (the "2") is the orifice size, and the "J" tells you it fits ONLY the "J" series torch handles. Nessism is correct, you'll eventually need a few extra tips - sizes 0 thru 2, would be handy.
Again, I can't tell from the pics, but you may have to spring for different inlet fittings for the regs. If you do, your local welding supply can fix you up - just tell him what bottles you plan to use.
Last edited by PuttPutt; 01-11-07 at 05:48 AM.