I am building my first frame - lugged, steel - and am at the point where I need to find someone to do the head tube reaming and facing for me. The required tools are just too expensive at this time. I went to a local bike shop in Seal Beach and they are able to do the work, but I didn't like the reception I got there. With no customers in the shop and no work being done when I came in, I was told that they could do the work, but I would have to make an appointment and it would be 8 days before they could get around to it. I don't know if I just made a bad impression or what, but if someone walked into my shop when I was idle and wanted something done that could generate a little income in these slow times, I wouldn't tell them to come back in 8 days. If I had been shopping for a bike would I have been given the same answer? Anyway, I'm looking for a framebuilder in So. Cal., not too far from Long Beach, who can do some frame prep for me. Know of anyone? Gary

Maybe they thought it looked like they had a lot of facing to do and it wouldn't be worth the wear on the tools? You have a lot of ht sticking out out past the lugs?

As far as I am concerned there are more reasons not to face an amateur project than to face it. I'm surprised any of them do it. I don't think it is too crazy of them if they really meant they would get to it in the future. If you thought you were being blown off, that would be a pain.

I wish I could help you out, but I am on the wrong coast.

I didn't even have the frame with me. He quoted me a price of $45 for the work and seemed willing enough, in theory, but being a business owner myself, I think there must have been some kind of an attitude at work. Or maybe they really are that busy/shorthanded.

whats the reason for not facing an amateur project? as long as there is no liability concerns help the guy out.? Most of these tools don't get used much anyway these days unless they deal with a lot of steel frames My local bike shop faced and reamed my first frame no sweat. If there is too much head tube sticking out, cut it off and then face it.

- There is liability. If the bike falls apart the pro whose hands it went through might be seen as an expert who would know the difference between a safe frame and a dangerous one. It doesn't mater whether that is true, just so long as it sounds reasonable enough to get named in a suit. The liability is believed to be real enough, because there are a growing number of parts suppliers who don't sell to non-pros, without a track record, and insurance. Not even having the basic tools would sound like a lower test still.

- There could be a risk to the tools or the bike, and the shop isn't covered if the newbie maker did something that would add to wear or time to deal with gooey residual acid flux. If something happens to the tool, who is going to cover the several hundred dollar cost to the shop. What about if the shop can't get a good cut because of all the distortion from a newbie. Is it the kind of thing you can delegate to the guy who changes tires, or is the shop owner going to have to get involved, when he is already busy.

- The home maker is really a competitor to the shop. He either doesn't think the shop sells the right stuff, or he wants to compete with him down the road. It is like the guy who goes to Wal-Mart for his stuff, but brings it for service to a local shop.

- The bike business really doesn't like amateur builders. I can think of lots of other activities were non-pros are doing crazy stuff and nobody blinks an eye. When I used to rock climb, I would buy these "parts" from a store, then go and rig a cliff with protection, from what I learned from a book. I started at 12. Never had a problem. Seems way more risky to me than brazing, but to hear the Pollyanna's talk it is all going to end badly. Same kind of attitude that faces any new development like a carbon frame. Or the attitude to show bikes. Totally conventional thinkers.

Peterpan, i think you are making it way too complicated. Gooey flux residue isn't gonna hurt a tool that cuts steel and if the bike shop is worried about liability concerns they could just tell him straight up. Its true, there are way too many lawsuits but we can't let that get in the way of doing what you want to do. If the shop is a quality shop they aren't worried about a little competition and I have found that most of the people I talk to in the bike business are very receptive to frame builders and they think its cool, thats just the ones I have done business with. Actually they usually give me a bigger discount and try to help me out however they can. I don't know who Pollyanna is but she needs to have a little hope and faith. The bicycle started with a simple concept, try not to make it so dificult.

You asked what the reasons could be, I gave my best guess. If you keep up with the lists you know that you get a range of responses from folks looking for this service, some get the open arm treatment, others can't find anyone who will touch the job. I think it is reasonable to imagine that the reasons at one end of the spectrum are not the same at the other end.

You can nitpick the specifics, but I don't think it is probably too far off the mark to say tool wear, liability, competition are likely responses. I agree that the flux comment is a little weak, but without spending too much time drawing pictures I think the conditions you could run into from the average home builder could be different than standard commercial work. I once agreed to turn some guitar forms for a guy. He was given instructions on where to get the ply etc... But he showed up with MDF that was extremely nasty to turn. Of course I ended up doing it anyway. No biggie but it's the reality of leaving the well trodden path. If he comes in with nasty vitrious flux, I wouldn't want it near my stuff.

Liability is for real, and two big names, Ritchie and Nahbs arbitrarily slammed the door on the non-pro this year. If they don't want to touch us why should the local shop be any different.

None of this applies to the OP's post if it is true the shop was happy to comply.

A shop uses these tools to cut an already cut surface, i.e. remove mostly paint. When you face a new frame, you are cutting a lot of steel. There is a significant difference in lifetime between these two usages. For example, my Bicycle Research HT reamer/facer has major wear after just a few frames. It would have lasted forever in typical bicycle store usage.

At any rate, Bicycle Discovery in Fountain Valley is the closest shop to you that I know can do the job. They have a mechanic who built frames for Benotto when they were in Mexico; he knows what he's doing. And they make a big deal about rapid turn-around. You may be able to drop it off and pick it up on the same day.

Wes Oishi at SoundCycles can do it as well, cheap and while you wait. He's on Pico and La Brea in Los Angeles, so you'll have to add the cost of treating your gunshot wounds, though.

I'm in Torrance and have the tools. Call if you haven't found anyone yet. I also have an alignment table so we can do that as well...if you're up to it.

Ed
310-809-6038

Wow, that`s incredibly cool of you.