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Component Question

Old 06-21-15, 12:54 PM
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Component Question

Hello all! I just got a 2015 gt grade tiagra. I have a 2012 Fuji cross 2.0 that came with 10 speed ultegra in the rear and 105 in the front. The fuji has about 400 miles on it. My question is which is better 2012 ultegra-105 mix or 2015 Tiagra? Is there much of a difference? The GT's cables are fully sheathed but the back end does not shift properley, I was told by performance that the mechanic spent 1 hour trying to get it to shift correctly but because of the full sheathing that it needs to "break in". What do you think? Thanks in advance for all replies.
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Old 06-21-15, 01:00 PM
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I consider this a "bird in the hand..." or "devil you know..." question.

If the existing bike components are working and doing what you want of them, you have zero to only little upside for improvement, so why even consider changing. OTOH- if the existing stuff is somehow - identifiably - lacking, then then there's little to lose, and rome for improvement, and a change might be warranted.

Once you reach mid level hardware, ie. 105 and up, the performance differences become very narrow, si it's about weight, cosmetics and prestige more than actually working better.
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Old 06-21-15, 01:45 PM
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Maybe a real bike shop can fix the shifting problem for you. Never had much faith in many of the "mechanics" at places like Performance, REI, etc.
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Old 06-21-15, 06:30 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming! Is it true the sheathed cables make it harder to adjust the derailers until it breaks in? Or is that a bunch of hogwash?
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Old 06-21-15, 06:32 PM
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So Since tiagra is below 105 it would be worth switching?
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Old 06-21-15, 06:51 PM
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Tiagra and the previous generations 105 will generally be on par with each other.

Ultegra = last generations Dura Ace

105 = The previous generations Ultegra

Generally shimano trickles down - performance wise - roughly 1 tier each generation.

So they're pretty equivalent.
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Old 06-21-15, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I consider this a "bird in the hand..." or "devil you know..." question.

If the existing bike components are working and doing what you want of them, you have zero to only little upside for improvement, so why even consider changing. OTOH- if the existing stuff is somehow - identifiably - lacking, then then there's little to lose, and rome for improvement, and a change might be warranted.

Once you reach mid level hardware, ie. Tiagra and up, the performance differences become very narrow, si it's about weight, cosmetics and prestige more than actually working better.
Fixed that for you.
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Old 06-21-15, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by RonH View Post
Maybe a real bike shop can fix the shifting problem for you. Never had much faith in many of the "mechanics" at places like Performance, REI, etc.
A real bike shop. Haha
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Old 06-21-15, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cale View Post
Fixed that for you.
Thanks, but I typed what I meant to type. If you have a different opinion, feel free to express it, but please don't "fix" what I say or mean.
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Old 06-21-15, 07:38 PM
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Sounds like hogwash/incompetent wrenching to me. A brand new bike should NEVER leave the store unless it shifts perfectly. It's either faulty equipment or improper installation, and I'm betting it's the latter. Oh, and switching out drivetrains will leave both your 2012 and 2015 bikes worth less than before, and void the warranty on the new one.
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Old 06-21-15, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Thanks, but I typed what I meant to type. If you have a different opinion, feel free to express it, but please don't "fix" what I say or mean.
It sounds as though you have been wronged sir and recompense is due. We shall await an apology for this insolence.
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Old 06-21-15, 07:51 PM
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To the OP.

Before we can offer specific help on your question we need to know lot's more.

What EXACTLY is the problem with the old derailleur?
Has it always been this way, or has it worked fine for a while, then started shifting poorly more recently?
What, if anything, changed between when it worked and when id no longer did (other than slow degrading over time)?
What did the shop mechanic do? Most important, did he replace the cable?

All these questions are important, because the anwers point in certain directions.

For example, if it used to shift OK, that answers your question about full housing. So, continuing that thought, if the mechanic didn't replace the housing, it's very possible, maybe even likely, that the problem is simply worn housing.

IMO - when a mechanic spends an hour on a problem and still doesn't know what it is, he won't ever know what it is. If he truly believed that break in was called for, he could and would have concluded that well before wasting an hour.

BTW- not knowing anything else and just throwing **** against the wall, I suspect that the RD in't the issue. Odds are the problem is upstream, either a worn shifter, or cable friction, so replacing the RD won't achieve anything.
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Old 06-21-15, 09:26 PM
  #13  
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Just a guess but the problem might be solved by switching the cables from Shimano to Campy or some other 1.1mm cables. The coated Shimano cables are close to 1.2mm and the housings are close to 1.2mm.

I had a similar problem with new cable and housing on my Dura Ace equipped 91Klein. I thought it was the 7400 derailleur but once I ditched the Shimano cables it shifts like butter.
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Old 06-21-15, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Thanks, but I typed what I meant to type. If you have a different opinion, feel free to express it, but please don't "fix" what I say or mean.
Seems like the Tiagra-equipped mid-level bikes get the pass but when we talk "components" mid-level starts at 105. When 5700 105 was mid-level it was praised for almost the same qualities as one would use to praise the Tiagra group today. Performance bike hasn't updated their Basic-Guide: Introduction to Shimano Road Groups but wrote the following about 105.

105: 105 is Shimano’s mid-tier group, and is currently available as a 10-speed mechanical group. Most of the features found on Dura-Ace and Ultegra can be found on the 105 groups, and it is cross compatible with 10-speed Dura-Ace and Ultegra groups. Features like “under the cable cable routing”, ergonomic levers and high-end rear derailleur performance put 105 in a league of its own when it comes to performance and value.

With the exception of "under the cable cable routing" (sic), Tiagra makes no compromises to the old 105.

Of course the groupsets have changed over the years and what was mid-level yesterday, might not make the grade today. But the process by which a bike is deemed worthy of riding depends on a great deal more than the groupset it comes equipped with. That's why you can buy an Edmonda 5 S, a Raleigh Militis 1, a Giant Defy Advanced 3, or a Ridley Fenix C40. All carbon fiber-framed Tiagra-equipped bikes that sit squarely in the mid-level road bike category.

There a tendency to "105" stuff. If it doesn't have 105 it doesn't make the grade. But 105 and Tiagra are closer in performance today than they have even been. So much so that many, not all, manufacturer's are putting it on frames you wouldn't have imagined it on in the past.

BTW, It was rude to change your post. Sorry about that. A bit of drama, I'm afraid, to lighten the reception of what has been heated discussion of late. You're a good sport to play along.

Last edited by cale; 06-21-15 at 09:58 PM. Reason: Grammar, clarity, remove Defy 3 because it has aluminum frame.
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Old 06-21-15, 09:53 PM
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To FBinNY
The shifting problem is on my brand new 2015 GT Grade tiagra. When they built it the mechanic supposedly spent an hour setting up the derailers and when I took it out for a quick 2 mile test ride I noticed the the shifting in the rear would sometimes not shift and sometimes would shift 2 gears at once. They said it has to due with the shift cables being fully sheathed and it should break in.
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Old 06-21-15, 09:56 PM
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To CrossCreek
Thanks for this advice! Will keep bikes as they are. I will get the tiagra sorted out one way or another.
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Old 06-21-15, 10:13 PM
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Fully enclosed cable isn't going to perform as well as cable that is unsheathed to some degree because of added friction. You would probably get better performance if you upgraded the rear derailleur because I have found that Shimano rear derailleurs get a lot of their "crispness" from strong springs. Try a 5700 105 or 6700 Ultegra rear derailleur.

Last edited by cale; 06-21-15 at 10:17 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-21-15, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by whitehare View Post
Thanks for the replies. Keep them coming! Is it true the sheathed cables make it harder to adjust the derailers until it breaks in? Or is that a bunch of hogwash?
This is why some of us liked the down tube shifters. The only housing the RD had was at the rear where the cable turned around and went into the RD.
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Old 06-21-15, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
This is why some of us liked the down tube shifters. The only housing the RD had was at the rear where the cable turned around and went into the RD.
Not that I disagree with the downtube shifters as having its adherents, the point of all that housing is so the shifting in the rear doesn't get messed up by the mud. (The bike in discussion is not strictly a road bike, more like a gravel bike.) Anyway, full enclosed cables weren't part of the downtube "vocabulary" that I remember.
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Old 06-22-15, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post

Once you reach mid level hardware, ie. 105 and up, the performance differences become very narrow, si it's about weight, cosmetics and prestige more than actually working better.
I thought Tiagra and 105 were entry level products.

GH
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Old 06-22-15, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by whitehare View Post
To FBinNY
The shifting problem is on my brand new 2015 GT Grade tiagra. When they built it the mechanic supposedly spent an hour setting up the derailers and when I took it out for a quick 2 mile test ride I noticed the the shifting in the rear would sometimes not shift and sometimes would shift 2 gears at once. They said it has to due with the shift cables being fully sheathed and it should break in.
Baloney! Fiddling with the derailleur for an hour on a new bike tells me that the mechanic hasn't figured it out. If you brought that bike to me the first thing that I would do would be to check the derailleur hanger alignment. It doesn't have to be off by much to make it act exactly like you indicated. It's possible, of course, that hanger alignment isn't the problem but, when I was doing a lot of that type of repair, I found I was time ahead by checking that first.
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Old 07-13-15, 05:57 AM
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UPDATE!
I went to my local bicycle co-op and the mechanic there has over 20yrs experience and he also could not get the rear derailer to shift properly. I went back to the performance I bought the bike from and said Fix or or I want my money back. The head mechanic thought that the cable might be kinked under the sheathing so he replaced
it with his personal stash of Teflon coated cable. The cable he replaced was kinked in more than one place. The new cable did the trick the bike shifts fine now! The mechanic also told me that almost all the GT grades that they sold (mostly sora and claris model's) all had the same issues. I know a lot of people here put down the mechanic's at performance but this guy was great! He even put on a hand adjustable seat clamp as I was complaining about the stock one. Now I just need to get out and ride !
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