General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Patching tires - help

Old 10-10-15, 05:50 PM
  #1  
freeman45
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Patching tires - help

.
So patch #293 is ready to be applied, but I have a few questions for the experts before I go about this.



1) I always patched it on an empty tube, in fear of the air escaping the hole and causing a bubble in my patch as the glue dried. But because of this, when the tube is pumped back up, the patch restricted the surrounding rubber to fully inflate. The tube was always slightly deformed. Is that an error on my part? Should I be patching an inflated tube instead?


2) The poorly written instructions say to apply the glue and then the patch.
But isn't this contact cement? Shouldn't I be waiting for the glue to dry, before applying the patch?


3) Stick on patches vs the glue-on ones. I found stickies for the first time and they are woooooonderful, so much easier to apply, especially on the trail. But over the course of the summer, they sort of came undone. I was sure to sand + clean the rubber before applying, but maybe it's just the brand that I used that was poor. Or maybe because I patched a deflated tire. Are those stickers meant to be permanent patches, or temporary?
freeman45 is offline  
Old 10-10-15, 07:49 PM
  #2  
JanMM
rebmeM roineS
 
JanMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Metro Indy, IN
Posts: 15,457

Bikes: RANS V3 ti, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 461 Post(s)
Liked 15 Times in 15 Posts
Continue to patch empty tubes. When the patched tube is reinflated inside the tire it doesn't matter that it looked deformed.
For a traditional patch kit, it's neither contact cement nor glue - it's vulcanizing fluid. Put it on the tube and wait for it to dry before applying the patch.
Stick on patches are supposed to be permanent - but many delayed failures have been reported. Hasn't happened to me, but I haven't used many.
__________________
RANS V3 Ti, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
JanMM is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 12:55 AM
  #3  
chasm54
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Deformation of the tube is normal. It doesn't matter, because in use it is the tyre, rathe than the tube's elasticity, that is the limiting factor.

Apply the rubber solution to the tube. Stick on the patch when it is almost dry but still slightly tacky

The instant patches are what might be called semi-permanent. When I have used them they have failed at between one and two years.
chasm54 is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 05:36 AM
  #4  
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 29,262

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1148 Post(s)
Liked 21 Times in 16 Posts
Originally Posted by chasm54 View Post
The instant patches are what might be called semi-permanent. When I have used them they have failed at between one and two years.
That sounds like "jumbo-shrimp" to me but a patch that lasted for a year wouldn't bother me too much. I have no experience whatever with glue less patches because I've never felt the need.

I collect my punctured tubes in a box in my workshop and patch them all at one time when it's convenient. I use vulcanizing fluid patches and clamp the patches with a c-clamp and a couple pieces of wood as they dry or cure or whatever the right word is. I can't remember ever having had a patch fail.
__________________
My greatest fear is all of my kids standing around my coffin and talking about "how sensible" dad was.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 06:47 AM
  #5  
rydabent
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 7,524

Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1315 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
I have used glueless patches for years. I inflate the tube to approx the size of the tire, and apply the patch. I then press the patch down with my thumbs for several seconds, and then release the air. Using this method prevents stress on the patch when the tube is put in the tire and inflated. I feel this is why I have had such good luck with glueless patches. I use Park glueless patches, and some have lasted 2 years or more.
rydabent is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 07:28 AM
  #6  
chasm54
Banned.
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Uncertain
Posts: 8,651
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
I have used glueless patches for years. ... I use Park glueless patches, and some have lasted 2 years or more.
Some have lasted two years? So essentially, most fail before then, and by using them you are guaranteeing that at some point in the not-too-distant future you're going to have another flat tyre even though you haven't punctured.

Traditional patches take five minutes to apply and are permanent, they'll last as long as the tube.
chasm54 is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 01:21 PM
  #7  
Stucky
Old Fart
 
Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,358

Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Apply patch to fully deflated tube when vulcanizing fluid is almost dry(still tacky)...clamp tightly between fingers for a little while.

I've been patching tubes since i was 8 years old (45 years, now) and this has always worked so well. The patches are truly permanent- to the point where I've had tubes that had more patches than original tube material and they'd last for eons- I'd always end up throwing the tube out just because it had too many patches...never because a patch let go. (Now I use Gatorskin tires and don't get flats- so I can run nice virgin tubes!)
Stucky is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 03:39 PM
  #8  
ramzilla
Senior Member
 
ramzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: 10% Atlanta GA 90% Fernandina FL
Posts: 2,449

Bikes: Vintage Japanese Bicycles

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
I've been slowly upgrading all my tubes to "thorn proof" type. Over the past three years or so. Have had no problems since. Knock on wood. It's a sacrifice. Thorn proof tubes are heavy & expensive. And, you have to get just the right size. YRMV. Be good, have fun.
ramzilla is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 05:09 PM
  #9  
ltxi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,725
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I carry glueless. They'll get me home. If I intend to keep using the tube I'll replace them with glued patches before long.
ltxi is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 05:12 PM
  #10  
Ludeykrus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Flowery Branch, GA
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
To those that have used stickon patches with success: we're these on skinny road tires running pressure of 90+ psi?
Ludeykrus is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 09:38 PM
  #11  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 8,875

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2693 Post(s)
Liked 82 Times in 68 Posts
I inflate the tube until it takes shape and has slight resistance to compression. Then I'll apply the glue, wait for it to dry (takes less than a minute), then apply the patch. If the tube deflates and is limp by the time the glue dries, I'll pump a little more air.

So far, so good. I've done this with dozens of patches umpteen years ago, and more recently with the one flat I've had since resuming cycling a month ago.

No idea whether this is correct. I just find it easier to handle the tube, tire and rim when the tube is very slightly inflated. Easier to be sure it's not kinked inside the tire.
canklecat is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 09:45 PM
  #12  
10 Wheels
Galveston County Texas
 
10 Wheels's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In The Wind
Posts: 30,995

Bikes: 2010 Expedition, 03 GTO

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 709 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Patch then Pump.

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Big Flat.jpg (57.4 KB, 25 views)
__________________
Fred "The Real Fred"
10 Wheels is offline  
Old 10-11-15, 11:08 PM
  #13  
Stucky
Old Fart
 
Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,358

Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ramzilla View Post
I've been slowly upgrading all my tubes to "thorn proof" type. Over the past three years or so. Have had no problems since. Knock on wood. It's a sacrifice. Thorn proof tubes are heavy & expensive. And, you have to get just the right size. YRMV. Be good, have fun.
I bought a set of those when I first started riding. When they arrived and I realized how heavy they were, I never even took them out of the box! They weigh more than a good puncture-resistant tire...a lot more!
Stucky is offline  
Old 10-12-15, 03:13 AM
  #14  
The Chemist
Senior Member
 
The Chemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 526

Bikes: 2011 Giant FCR3500

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ludeykrus View Post
To those that have used stickon patches with success: we're these on skinny road tires running pressure of 90+ psi?
I used them once on a 700x28 tube at 90psi and they sucked. Didn't hold pressure for more than a day. Given that regular patches really aren't that difficult to apply, I don't see the point of the stick on ones.
The Chemist is offline  
Old 10-12-15, 07:28 AM
  #15  
Ludeykrus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Flowery Branch, GA
Posts: 103
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
^ I've had the same experience. High pressure tires just blow the stickon patches out. I've had great luck with them on my MTB and my tourer at pressures no higher than about 65 psi.
Ludeykrus is offline  
Old 10-12-15, 04:53 PM
  #16  
ltxi
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,725
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 258 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Patch then Pump.

---
ltxi is offline  
Old 10-12-15, 05:04 PM
  #17  
Fastfingaz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,328
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by ltxi View Post
---
Man look at that,,, good thing that tire is only flat on the bottom......
Fastfingaz is offline  
Old 10-13-15, 10:46 AM
  #18  
ramzilla
Senior Member
 
ramzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: 10% Atlanta GA 90% Fernandina FL
Posts: 2,449

Bikes: Vintage Japanese Bicycles

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 393 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Yes, they are very heavy. But, to be fair they don't really weigh that much more than a good tire. Especially if you're using the 23 - 25mm sizes. And, for fitness riding they're hard to beat.
ramzilla is offline  
Old 10-13-15, 11:33 AM
  #19  
italktocats
Senior Member
 
italktocats's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 902
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 150 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
i inflate, let some air out untill the pressure is low enough to hold the tire in shape but not bubble the glue, patch it, put something heavy on it do hold in place and grab next tire i need to patch..
italktocats is offline  
Old 10-13-15, 12:01 PM
  #20  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,348
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
You have all the main answers so let me address the clueless patches because there is some controversy with those.

All I have used in the last 20 years or so are glueless patches and I only had 2 maybe 3 failures in all that time. One failure was from the tube getting wet accidently, the others were from poor quality brands of patches, but if I use Specialized Fatboys or Park brand I never have a failure. And I DON'T go home and peel off the patch and put a glue on patch on, nor do I throw away the tube! If the tube is prepared correctly a glueless patch will last the life of the tube, I've had tubes with as many as 13 glueless patches that were 7 to 8 years old and they all were still holding and they were my main tubes I rode on. I like these so much I never went back to glue on patches in those 20 some odd years. My commuter bike has two on the front tire right now and I think nothing of it riding the bike with those on. I even have a spare tube in my seat back with two glueless patches on it and the tube still holds air just fine.

Reason most people don't like them is that they fail to prepare the tube correctly, with glue on patches you can make an error in the preparation process and you might get away with, not so with glueless. Lot of people also really don't know how to patch a tube with glue on patches, they hide the fact for not knowing by saying they just buy new tubes every time they get a puncture, fine, but that's a huge waste of money.

Preparing the tube is the same as a glue on, you have to use the enclosed buffer to buff the tube an area slightly larger than the patch will cover, you then peel the patch off making sure you touch the smallest area possible (usually I peel if with a fingernail from the corner and it hangs on my nail and then I place it so it's centered over the hole). Next you have to press it between your thumbs and your fingers (making a sandwich with the tube and patch in the middle) as hard as you can for 30 seconds, then look at the patch, if you see any frosty areas (lighter shaded areas) you have to repress those areas; I usually repress the corners just for precaution whether or not their frosty. Now the tube is ready to go.

I told a friend about these once, and he tried using one when I wasn't there and called me up to swear at me! So I went to his house and patched the same tube with his patches and showed him how to do it as I went. After that he never has had a failure and he's been using them now for about 4 or so years.

I'm not sure how long the self sticky stuff lasts in storage, just for peace of mind I replace any left over patches that are over a year old, their cheap so it's no big deal to do that.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 10-13-15, 08:00 PM
  #21  
Daniel4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,990
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 680 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times in 10 Posts
The original tube of adhesive was all dry. So I'm using store-bought rubber cement. Hope it works.
Daniel4 is offline  
Old 10-13-15, 09:46 PM
  #22  
Tannedsailor
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a cut out old inner tube+contact cement patch on for the last 3 years and always have it inflated to 75 psi which is its max with no issues.The trick is to have a smoothest thinnest layer of cement on both patch and tube area and it should be properly sanded b4 ,If these 2 steps are followed properly then you should have no issue and the tube lasts as good as new.
Tannedsailor is offline  
Old 10-14-15, 10:58 AM
  #23  
rekmeyata
Senior Member
 
rekmeyata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 8,348
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
The original tube of adhesive was all dry. So I'm using store-bought rubber cement. Hope it works.
That's one of the reasons I switched to glueless was because I got fed up with dry glue tubes, but I found out that glueless patches are a bit faster to use than glue on.
rekmeyata is offline  
Old 10-14-15, 11:09 AM
  #24  
Last ride 76 
Senior Member
 
Last ride 76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Just moved...1 km S. Now above the "Bike Path" ( River Road, Piermont, NY)
Posts: 742

Bikes: Old Bikes: '74 Ron Cooper, Crashed and repaired '76, restored 2015!!! need restoration '74 Witcomb track bike (bought in '75) '75 Carlsbad Masi, bought in '76 New bikes: 84-85 Gios torino "Professional" '76 Olmo Competition C Titiano

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 103 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Stucky View Post
Apply patch to fully deflated tube when vulcanizing fluid is almost dry(still tacky)...clamp tightly between fingers for a little while.

I've been patching tubes since i was 8 years old (45 years, now) and this has always worked so well. The patches are truly permanent- to the point where I've had tubes that had more patches than original tube material and they'd last for eons- I'd always end up throwing the tube out just because it had too many patches...never because a patch let go. (Now I use Gatorskin tires and don't get flats- so I can run nice virgin tubes!)

+1 Sometimes I got cuts at the valve stem when we rode our coaster brakes with lower pressure down hiking trails. Otherwise patch and forget.

Last edited by Last ride 76; 10-14-15 at 11:13 AM.
Last ride 76 is offline  
Old 10-14-15, 04:50 PM
  #25  
Stucky
Old Fart
 
Stucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bumpkinsville
Posts: 3,358

Bikes: '97 Klein Quantum '16 Gravity Knockout

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
The original tube of adhesive was all dry. So I'm using store-bought rubber cement. Hope it works.
It might hoild temporarily- but rubber cement is not the same (and not as adhesive) as vulcanizing fluid. I used to think they were the same- they sure seem similar- but they're not the same. You can get real cheap tubes of vulcanizing fluid on Ebay- or antire li'l patch kit for around a buck- order a bunch of 'em just for the tubes of fluid....throw away the patches if they're not suitable. (Glad this came up- I always check my tube of fluid which resides in my saddle bag every7 few months...and it's about time, and I'd forgotten! I replace it every year, whether it needs to be replaced or not)
Stucky is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
ethet
Classic & Vintage
8
03-12-17 06:52 PM
smoke
Professional Cycling For the Fans
0
07-26-07 10:13 AM
Delix
Introductions
2
04-24-05 10:34 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.