jon c. 

Sure, but they are essentially performing a clerical function in filing a report. You call them because they are the designated party to file the requisite report.

The idea that cops are knights in shining armor who will show up and save your butt in a time of dire crisis is substantially fantasy.

Maelochs

Cops investigate crimes, long after the crime has happened.

They can also act as deterrents just because people know that the cops might catch them if they commit crimes. (Certain folks are less deterred because they feel they have less to lose.)

Call 911 if you like ... I would ... but be aware the average response time is something like 11-15 minutes. Hold your breath if you like.

I called the cops last when my mailbox was robbed, and the cops investigated as part of a string of mailbox robberies. Because of the police report, I was able to recover all the lost money and have late fees for the bills which would have been paid by the stolen checks rescinded. No small matter, that. By the way, the cops caught the thieves and sent them to jail. Bravo!

People who do not have a cop fetish or problems with authority figures can see cops for what they are and appreciate what they do.

After all, which of us would dare own an expensive bike (or TV, car, or computer) if there were no cops? Which of us would let his/her significant other out of sight if it weren't for cops? If criminals knew they could act with impunity?

Picture Somalia a few years back, where gangs of 15-year-olds with AKs ran the streets, and stole all the food and medical supplies and everything else that had the slightest value, ***** and killed at will ... there was no 911, no cops, no ambulance, and pretty much not a damn thing anyone could do because the gangs controlled the supply of guns, so ... no vigilantes. Just other gangs.

That Glock is a pretty paperweight if you can't buy bullets. And if you are facing a bunch of drug-crazed kids carrying fully automatic weapons they will laugh at your Glock and laugh at the first couple guys you shoot before your body disintegrates in a hail or 7.62 bullets.

None of which excuses cops for shooting unarmed and/or non-threatening individuals just because they always used to be able to get away with it. And that is another fact---for most of the history of this nation, cops got away with anything they did because who would investigate? Their friends, the cops. Cops have been killing/beating/falsely arresting people forever. Recently with the availability of recording/video devices, cops are getting caught for doing stuff they used to get away with.

We have all heard about the unregistered gun the cop would carry to stuff in the hand of the innocent person who got shot through cop error, or the bag of dope which didn't have the victims prints on it but was "in his pocket." many of us have personal experience with cops lying on the stand. Not saying this stuff happened all the time ... but we have been seeing latley how often it happens nowadays, and i can tell you it is not a new phenomenon.

That said, most police forces are probably more honest and more effective nowadays than at any time in our. nation's history, and I for one am glad we have cops---because we also have criminals.

I have had cops screw me over, I have had cops try to and fail, I have had cops help me with everything from directions when I got lost on a long ride to an investigation report when I was robbed. I have dealt with cops--and criminals--from every angle. Given that we have criminals, I choose generally to back the cops. But I have no illusions about what would happen to me if I caught the wrong one at the wrong time, even if I wasn't doing anything wrong--because I have been there.

rekmeyata

Tell you what, you learn to write correctly and we can discuss, because for me it's hard to reason with a cop hater because all you guys think about is how awful, scandalous, and murderous all cops are, their just the scum of the earth. Tell me how I reason with your mentality already dead set on that thinking?

Maelochs

Lol ... much of a blind spot?

PepeM

Good stuff.

As for the rest of your post, since I never said any of that I am not sure what there is to argue.

rekmeyata

You're right by golly! I have a big blind spot, I have a hard time seeing through haters, idiots, and racists.

ColaJacket

Just because a state has a statute, doesn't mean that the statute is constitutional.

And put me on the side that says that the overwhelming majority of cops are pretty much good people trying to do their job. There are a few bad apples that give the majority a bad name.

If you want smarter cops, then the pay needs to be increased. Most people with college degrees want jobs that pay more than most cops earn. And I wouldn't expect a non-lawyer to know all of the laws of a jurisdiction, and even then, most lawyers specialize so they don't have to know all of the laws, but just those for their specialty.

I try to always be polite with cops. It has gotten me out of a few tickets with warnings. I can only think of one encounter with cops where later on, I had reason to question their motives, but even then I was polite, and they were polite, and nothing bad happened (other than me getting a ticket).

I am in favor of body cameras for cops, because it will actually help the good cops, in a he-said, she-said controversy. It will make some of the other cops think twice about how much force they should use, or whether or not they should escalate or de-escalate a situation. And for the really bad cops, it should help them be convicted.

Know your rights. Be polite. Stay calm, but assert your rights.

GH

Sullalto

I'm not. So long as the Blue Wall of Silence exists, I think it's awfully hard to say that the majority are good cops.

mprelaw

I can't believe that this thread hasn't been bounced to P&R yet.

Maelochs

This is really the hardest thing, for civilians and LEOs. An otherwise completely decent LEO knows s/he pretty much has to close ranks after an incident, and even has to accept what s/he knows to be a questionable cop, because it is that or his/her career is over--a cop who turns in another cop might as well resign.

Yet ... civilians, even those who want to trust most cops, know that even the good ones might lie on the stand to protect a buddy.

On the other hand, I have seen video of a good cop reining in a less-than-good cop ...

Anyway, these are really first-world problems. In a lot of places, the civilians would just be shot and dumped somewhere--problem solved. We sometimes forget how good we have it.

No reason, of course, not to keep demanding better ....

Sullalto

I've heard my family(From Pinochet's Chile and Colombia during the cartel wars) joke that at least they used to get the chance to bribe the cops previously. In the US, they just shoot you before you can even offer a bribe.

Mobile 155

I was just saying if you are in one of those 27 states they can ask and detain till they get a identification. So I guess it could depend on what your time is worth.

Coah

The federal laws appear to be explained in the supreme court decision Hibel v Sixth Judicial District of Nevada.
HIIBEL v. SIXTH JUDICIAL DIST. COURT OF NEV.,HUMBOLDT CTY. [03-5554] | FindLaw

My "friend" usually just tells the officer he "forgot" his wallet and would provide name and dress verbally. If the officer wants to be a jerk he can always illegally detain you and bank on the fact that most people and defense lawyers wouldn't pursue it. It's much better for you to play innocently dumb "I'm sorry officer I think I forgot it at home since I'm not driving and didn't want to loose it or risk getting mugged." If he/she continues to hassel you, then you and threatens to arrest you, you can always magically remember it was in another pocket. The officer will know you're being difficult but won't be able to prove you intentionally lied.

Coah

I had a Cop whirl up on me last year for crossing a crowded intersection a few seconds before the green (I've read this is a thing to improve your visibility to stopped cars). I also didn't have a helmet and did have headphones. : )

The cop runs out the car screaming, threatening 3 offenses as mandatory jail time etc.

I calmly told the officer, I understood he was appeared to be extremely...(intentional pause.) "Concerned". And that I wanted him to know that I understood the seriousness he was trying to convey and that I was fully willing to listen to him.

He paused and collected himself. He admitted that he was frustrated about a newpaper article advocating motorist aren't considerate enough of bikers and that he thought it was the reverse. I nodded and agreed with him that I thought it was much more dangerous to expect anyone to slow down for me. I told him that for my safety I rely on cars going first and then I intentionally plan my movement behind them. He nodded and stumbled off out of breath.

I fully admit that it probably helped my debacle that I was the same race as the cop.

jon c. 

It has been going on forever, but I think the number of citizens being killed has increased substantially. We have no statistics on this of course, so this is only my opinion based on my own observations. I think in many cases we see police fire their weapons much more quickly and often in much less threatening situations than we would have seen 30 or 40 years ago. Around that time, I worked closely with police in a fairly dangerous city. Some were good, some were borderline criminal (although otherwise honestly nice guys), a couple actually ended up in jail themselves. When I view a shooting in context of whether or not I thought any of these guys would have fired, the answer is very often no. In some cases a glaring and resounding no. To a man they would have had too much professionalism and too much self respect to use their weapon against a wholly unworthy "threat".

I think the line is much more easily crossed and the defense of such conduct is much more strident today. Seldom does one even hear a suggestion that the killing of a citizen was a mistake and perhaps steps should be taken to try to minimize the chance that such an incident will happen again. Of course society needs police, but I think our police forces today need a greater degree of professionalism and a change in attitude regarding their relationship with the citizens they are sworn to protect and serve.

As an older guy who rides largely in a rural area, I don't carry any ID and there is virtually no chance at all any officer would ever want to see one. They wave as I do an Idaho stop. So I have no personal issues with my local constabulary. But across society, I believe we see a level of violence by police that is seldom seen in other developed nations. I just don't think we're so bad that we deserve this and I don't think it ultimately improves the quality of life at any strata of society.

rydabent

So---------if you best friend or a member of you family was shot dead by a thug, would you be satisfied if the police only performed a a clerical function???

hig4s

It varies from state to state and some states will issue tickets against your DL if you give it to them.. For that reason alone, I usually do not carry my DL when riding my bike. I carry a passport card, (which you can get along with your passport but it is only good for going back and forth to Canada, Mexico and the Bahamas via ship).

rekmeyata

Don't make these cop haters think too much, because then they have come up with more lies to support their stories.

kickstart

I think anyone who has strong opinions about cops one way or the other either watches too much TV, or habitually makes bad decisions.

cafzali

You should file a formal complaint against the officer because, frankly, she should be reprimanded for not knowing the vehicle code in a state where she's a sworn peace officer. If she's a cop a state university, she has to have the same training and has the same powers as any other municipal police officer in the state.

I'm regularly astonished at cops' poor knowledge of the codes that govern their jobs.

kingston 

The guardian has been collecting data on the number of killings by police in the US, over 1,000 so far in 2015. It's a lot more people than police in other countries kill according to this article, also by the Guardian.

rydabent

You are probably right. But I get angry when blanket hate is directed at the police.

jgadamski

racial, sexist, ethnic generalities get bandied around based on real or unreal perceptions. Cops should be exempt? I can point to many police murders and riots that have gone unpunished. I agree with the posters who prefer NOT to include a cop in the dialog. No good can come from it. Unfortunately, THEY have the guns. It means little to 'win' when you are deceased.

rekmeyata

It's funny, they quote the Guardian, an anti (read that as hate) semitic organization with strong anti Israeli government views, yup this is a great news agency.

Maelochs

Even a bad journalist can report the truth. The Guardian might be biased and downright bad on certain subjects ... that doesn't mean that their numbers are wrong.

If you question their facts, provide contradictory facts. otherwise, you are just spouting bad BS just like they might be on anti-semitism--another charge you fail to support with any evidence, by the way.

But one doesn't need to read the Guardian---one can rad any American paper or simply turn on the TV and see cops being charged, tried, and sometimes convicted of excessive force and even manslaughter and murder.

For instance, have you seen the police dash-cam footage of the teenager shot in Chicago last year? The police, and the whole city government, lied publicly and repeatedly about what happened for an entire year, despite having possession of the film. When the film came out publicly, the Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel had to fire the police chief.

The LA times alright by you as a news source? LA Times reports "The reports, released by the city late Friday, show that Officer Jason Van **** and at least five other officers said McDonald moved or turned threateningly toward officers, even though the video of the October 2014 shooting shows the 17-year-old walking away. The scenario sketched out by Cook County State's Atty. Anita Alvarez in charging Van **** with first-degree murder also contends McDonald was walking away." (Chicago police reports conflict with video of Laquan McDonald's shooting - LA Times)

Sorry to inject facts into the debate, but oh, well.

Fact is, some cops act in criminal fashion.

I am not going to reiterate my support for police in general--I have pointed out my position several times in this thread. I am going to emphasize that Cops Do Break the Law, albeit a very small number, and when they do, should be treated like any other criminal.

For anyone to deny this is borderline insane and definitely dishonest. Not only have many cops been charged with, tried, and convicted of crimes from corruption to murder, nowadays there is a wealth of video evidence of cops shooting unarmed suspects, fleeing suspects, and then lying about it afterwards. If you choose to ignore this, you are not an honest person and there is no reason to continue to engage you in conversation.

Not everyone here is attacking police as a class. Those few that are, are wrong. But anyone proposing that all cops are good, are equally wrong. Facts are facts---face them.