Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > General Cycling Discussion
Reload this Page >

The Dutch intersection solution.....

Search
Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

The Dutch intersection solution.....

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 01-22-16 | 06:18 AM
  #1  
bruce19's Avatar
Thread Starter
Senior Member
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 9,158
Likes: 1,743
From: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT

Bikes: Canyon Aeroad, CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX, Guru steel & Guru Photon

The Dutch intersection solution.....

They've Invented An Ingenious New Type Of Intersection That Could Save Lives
bruce19 is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 06:42 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 549
Likes: 44
From: Houston area

Bikes: Catrike 700; Bike Friday Llama single; Bike Friday Tandem Tuesday; Easy Racers Ti-Rush recumbent; Catrike Expedition; Rans Seavo tandem

It can't hurt.
Tony Marley is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 06:45 AM
  #3  
BlazingPedals's Avatar
Senior Member
20 Anniversary
 
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,548
Likes: 797
From: Middle of da Mitten

Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed

Different yes, but I'm not too sure about the "safer" part. It moves the bikes out of the car driver's line of sight during right turns. Plus it forces the bikes to take a circuitous route through (every?) intersection. As the article said, maybe it'll appeal to the frightened-of-cars beginner though.
BlazingPedals is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 08:08 AM
  #4  
Don't make me sing!
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 2
From: Western PA

Bikes: 2013 Specialized Crosstrail Elite, 1986 Centurion Elite RS, Diamondback hardtail MTB, '70s Fuji Special Road Racer, 2012 Raleigh Revenio 2.0, 1992 Trek 1000

How do the bikes turn left? Do they have to go all the way around the intersection, risking contact with automobiles coming from more directions?

A million dollars for four concrete islands? I'm in the wrong line of work!
kevindsingleton is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 09:03 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Originally Posted by kevindsingleton
How do the bikes turn left? Do they have to go all the way around the intersection, risking contact with automobiles coming from more directions?

A million dollars for four concrete islands? I'm in the wrong line of work!
The left turn issue isn't much different than for any other bicycle side path if you think about it, which is another point against side paths in general.

I think this design may have some utility at busy intersections where there are large numbers of right turning cars, but at $1M per, may not make much sense. Care will also have to be taken o make sure the islands leave enough turning radius for long trucks and buses, so the entire intersection may end up using more real estate than otherwise.

The irony of all this effort to cater to the so-called interested but concerned is that once they start riding, many will come to dislike the new features that were made for them.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 09:07 AM
  #6  
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 6,341
Likes: 326
From: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

That would be more dangerous than regular intersections unless you made bicycles stop while cars are moving, prohibited right turns at red lights, and only allowed left turns on green arrows.

It makes a cyclist going straight more vulnerable to a right or left hook due to increased separation between cyclists and where drivers are looking.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 09:11 AM
  #7  
avidone1's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 1
From: still above ground

Bikes: 2016 Specialized crosstrail comp disc

I like it
avidone1 is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 09:14 AM
  #8  
JohnDThompson's Avatar
Old fart
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
Community Builder
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 26,347
Likes: 5,254
From: Appleton WI

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Looks interesting, but considering that many people already feel the cost of just painting bike lanes on the road is too much investment in bike infrastructure, I have my doubts it will catch on anytime soon.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 09:25 AM
  #9  
cyccommute's Avatar
Mad bike riding scientist
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,152
Likes: 6,209
From: Denver, CO

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Originally Posted by BlazingPedals
Different yes, but I'm not too sure about the "safer" part. It moves the bikes out of the car driver's line of sight during right turns. Plus it forces the bikes to take a circuitous route through (every?) intersection. As the article said, maybe it'll appeal to the frightened-of-cars beginner though.
My thoughts exactly. The problem with this kind of intersection and "protected" lanes is that they may make the beginner feel safer (they aren't really) but those of us who aren't beginners are relegated to the same protected lanes that put us out of view of cars. Denver has recently installed some protected lanes that are impassable when it snows. First the city doesn't have plows for the protected lanes and the snow off the main street gets shoved onto the lane.

One of the lanes is a "floating lane" where the bicycles are between the curb and parked cars where the cars "float" about 8 feet away from the curb. Business owners along this lane shove snow off their sidewalks onto the lane. Snow also gets piled up on the lane at intersections where crossing is dicey at best. And most of the lanes have been installed on the north side of buildings rather than on the exposed south side of the buildings. Snow that gets shoved into the lane soon becomes ice that lingers for a very long time.

Finally, all of the lanes that I've seen in Denver so far have deep flaws that are unrelated to snow. One of the lanes has been installed on the left side of the left travel lane. Bicyclists are normally on the left side of traffic...it renders even high mobile helmet mirrors almost useless. The "floating lane" has several intersection crossings where the rider is hidden behind cars at their most vulnerable point which is crossing an intersection.

The "Dutch lanes" linked to above aren't all that great in use. I've ridden something similar in The Netherlands a couple of years ago. The bike lane was tied to round-abouts and the bicyclists were forced to swing way out past the travel lane, cross 2 to 4 lanes of traffic including cars turning off the round-about. I'm not a huge fan of round-abouts for bicycles anyway but having to move outside the travel lane puts the cyclists out of mind to the motorist. I eventually just started riding through the round-about like a car and felt much better...even if I did get "Nee! Nee! Nee!" yelled at me by other cyclists.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!





cyccommute is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 09:26 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
Titanium Club Membership
15 Anniversary
 
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 39,897
Likes: 3,865
From: New Rochelle, NY

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

One of the dangers of comparing accident data and designs from Denmark or the Netherlands to our own is that possibly the largest factor isn't considered. IMO- the biggest contributor to the relative dangers is whether drivers are used to and expecting bicycles or not. Where drivers see bicycles every day on every road, they grow more attentive to them, see them sooner, and adjust their driving habits accordingly.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 10:26 AM
  #11  
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,883
Likes: 10
From: Southern Ontario
Left turns don't make much sense - from the looks of the photograph in the article you cross the street in the pedestrian cross walk, then ride against the oncoming bicycle traffic across the cross street and then continue down the cross street. If you had a green light when you wanted to make the left you would have to wait through 2 lights to make the left.
Slash5 is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 10:36 AM
  #12  
cyccommute's Avatar
Mad bike riding scientist
Titanium Club Membership
20 Anniversary
Community Builder
Community Influencer
 
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 29,152
Likes: 6,209
From: Denver, CO

Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

Originally Posted by FBinNY
One of the dangers of comparing accident data and designs from Denmark or the Netherlands to our own is that possibly the largest factor isn't considered. IMO- the biggest contributor to the relative dangers is whether drivers are used to and expecting bicycles or not. Where drivers see bicycles every day on every road, they grow more attentive to them, see them sooner, and adjust their driving habits accordingly.
Very true. The most frightening ride I've ever done was riding from the Nashville airport to the Natchez Trace trailhead. People in Nashville simply did not know how to act around a bicycle. It's the only time I've ever ridden sidewalks in a major city. I felt like I was totally invisible.
__________________
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!





cyccommute is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 11:20 AM
  #13  
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast

Bikes: 8

Difference: there is a big % of the voting public riding bicycles Daily, in NL.

One of the towns I Visited in NL, the Houses were all on a indirect series of streets out the front,

But Take your Bike Out The back Gate and the bike paths were straight through.

Last edited by fietsbob; 01-22-16 at 03:23 PM.
fietsbob is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 03:16 PM
  #14  
Don't make me sing!
 
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 2
From: Western PA

Bikes: 2013 Specialized Crosstrail Elite, 1986 Centurion Elite RS, Diamondback hardtail MTB, '70s Fuji Special Road Racer, 2012 Raleigh Revenio 2.0, 1992 Trek 1000

They should have just built the bicycle underpass, and we'd all be yelling about how cool it was!
kevindsingleton is offline  
Reply
Old 01-22-16 | 03:27 PM
  #15  
Banned
 
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 43,586
Likes: 1,380
From: NW,Oregon Coast

Bikes: 8

there is a bike overpass-roundabout there.
fietsbob is offline  
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
_ForceD_
General Cycling Discussion
25
12-01-17 09:32 PM
Ray Lovinggood
Commuting
94
06-03-15 05:59 PM
thejokell
Commuting
11
03-31-13 11:27 AM
vol
General Cycling Discussion
21
10-13-11 05:10 PM
stdlrf11
Commuting
19
10-04-11 06:29 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.