Disgusted
02-07-16, 05:30 PM
#52
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Keep in mind that nobody here is paid for posting (I don't think). We all have a different knowledge base. Most wouldn't truly be "experts", but the pool as a whole can become more "expert" than many single individuals.
If a person wants an "expert answer", then they can go to their local bike shop and pay someone $100 an hour to give that answer (keeping in mind that the person is actually only getting paid $10 an hour). And, in some senses a collective community may be better/smarter than many paid technicians.
Ask a question like "What's the best pedal". At a store, they may show you their stock. On the internet, you'll get 100 different opinions. Suggestions that you've never considered. And, perhaps equal reasons to go with cleats, flats, or clips. The individual must then sort out the answer. Yet, at the store, you can try them on. On then internet, you can ogle photos and listen to anecdotes. Very different.
Ask "what's the best tire", and one has to keep in mind that few respondents have the resources to put 5000 miles onto multiple tires within a dozen different brands to actually determine "the best". And those that have done that probably refer to tires that were discontinued 30 years ago
We've all had something work, or go bad, but haven't conducted randomized controlled trials.
I will say that I hope the first half dozen posts in a topic generally stay on topic. Once people think the OP's question has answered, why not ramble a bit. Perhaps that is part of the "entertainment" aspect of this website. How did we actually jump from pre-owned Bike Fridays to Ford Model T cars to classic Raleighs? Oops, that might have been in part my fault,
but that is part of the life of a thread on the internet, both entertaining, and informative.
If a person wants an "expert answer", then they can go to their local bike shop and pay someone $100 an hour to give that answer (keeping in mind that the person is actually only getting paid $10 an hour). And, in some senses a collective community may be better/smarter than many paid technicians.
Ask a question like "What's the best pedal". At a store, they may show you their stock. On the internet, you'll get 100 different opinions. Suggestions that you've never considered. And, perhaps equal reasons to go with cleats, flats, or clips. The individual must then sort out the answer. Yet, at the store, you can try them on. On then internet, you can ogle photos and listen to anecdotes. Very different.
Ask "what's the best tire", and one has to keep in mind that few respondents have the resources to put 5000 miles onto multiple tires within a dozen different brands to actually determine "the best". And those that have done that probably refer to tires that were discontinued 30 years ago
We've all had something work, or go bad, but haven't conducted randomized controlled trials.I will say that I hope the first half dozen posts in a topic generally stay on topic. Once people think the OP's question has answered, why not ramble a bit. Perhaps that is part of the "entertainment" aspect of this website. How did we actually jump from pre-owned Bike Fridays to Ford Model T cars to classic Raleighs? Oops, that might have been in part my fault,
but that is part of the life of a thread on the internet, both entertaining, and informative.
02-07-16, 05:43 PM
#53
Me duelen las nalgas
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02-07-16, 06:02 PM
#55
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You guys are in luck. I have forgotten more about bikes than anybody else on this forum will ever know, and if you ask me about something I will say I forgot it. What were we talking about, now?
02-07-16, 06:40 PM
#56
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Disgusted
I think it is interesting that this OP started at 8:30 this morning has already elicited 54 responses in about 10 and a half hours (on Super Bowl Sunday, no less). Don’t we cyclists have anything better to do?
Actually with the other posters I was interested in enough to reply because much of the discussion has been so introspective. Back in December I replied to this post “How do you use this site?.”
And on a different thread,
Actually with the other posters I was interested in enough to reply because much of the discussion has been so introspective. Back in December I replied to this post “How do you use this site?.”
…I prefer more the experiential discussions on BF rather than the technical/materiel (hardware) Forums, so I daily visit General Discussion, Advocacy & Safety, Commuting, Fifty-Plus, Living Car Free, Road Cycling, Touring, and seasonally, Winter Cycling. As to my participation on the Forums…
I happened serendipitously on Bike Forums in 2008, and it was frankly incredible to find a community that shared so many concerns I had kept to myself as a lone cyclist…what I have gotten directly from BF [include]…the opportunity to post and literally "journal" my thoughts and activities about cycling and lifestyle (even if nobody else reads them), but which I wouldn't write down otherwise…
…This is my first active internet forum, and I became interested in the communication style, and posted to this thread on Fifty-Plus in 2013,” How Do You Communicate on Forums vs Face-to-Face.”
That thread eventually was shut down [because]...some posts were overtly hostile and physically threatening.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
… I only read the threads and posts that interest me. If I'm particularly interested in the content then I'm motivated to read no matter how long...
For me, reading and posting to these forums so germane to my cycling lifestyle are not just for my amusement, but also to connect with like-minded people. Not many in my social and professional circles are avid cyclists….
It's surprising to me how much seeming discontent has been expressed on this thread about nasty entanglements, if indeed the correspondence of the forums is so ephemeral…
For me, reading and posting to these forums so germane to my cycling lifestyle are not just for my amusement, but also to connect with like-minded people. Not many in my social and professional circles are avid cyclists….
It's surprising to me how much seeming discontent has been expressed on this thread about nasty entanglements, if indeed the correspondence of the forums is so ephemeral…
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 02-07-16 at 06:54 PM.
02-07-16, 06:50 PM
#57
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And ... it's quite obviously winter in the northern hemisphere.
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Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
Rowan
My fave photo threads on BF
Century A Month Facebook Group
Machka's Website
Photo Gallery
02-07-16, 07:07 PM
#58
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As for the recently departed, too bad they feel as they do but I much prefer the atmosphere that exists on BF than something overly and usually biased, moderation.
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nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
nine mile skid on a ten mile ride
02-07-16, 07:33 PM
#59
Lucille
What's worse than a discussion that may be rough around the edges? Answer: Trying to censor a discussion or establish requirements for how one must answer (other than basic rules of courtesy which each site establishes).
If a discussion doesn't arrive at a unanimous conclusion (and why should it?) readers can takes information offered and choose whether to apply it to their situation.
There are no Bike Gods with the One Right Answer, there are people here with varying levels of experience.
If a discussion doesn't arrive at a unanimous conclusion (and why should it?) readers can takes information offered and choose whether to apply it to their situation.
There are no Bike Gods with the One Right Answer, there are people here with varying levels of experience.
02-07-16, 07:38 PM
#60
Senior Member
Such is the nature of the internet. It's full of true and false information, opinions, entertainment, jockeying and gamesmanship.
The flipside is that the right to free-speech is too often abused and moderators are often accused of bias and censorship. That's one trick of the trolls.
To ensure they get their comments posted, trolls accuse the moderator of censorship and bias.
In BikeForums, I recognize a name I would not respond directly. I know the game too well. At most I indirectly address the troll's issue but only if I feel if there's still anymore worth contributing.
The flipside is that the right to free-speech is too often abused and moderators are often accused of bias and censorship. That's one trick of the trolls.
To ensure they get their comments posted, trolls accuse the moderator of censorship and bias.
In BikeForums, I recognize a name I would not respond directly. I know the game too well. At most I indirectly address the troll's issue but only if I feel if there's still anymore worth contributing.
02-07-16, 08:24 PM
#63
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Eh, it aint that bad compared to 4chan.
02-07-16, 08:49 PM
#64
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
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Wait a minute... you've been here twice as long as indy and have more than twice the amount of posts!
Well done!
02-07-16, 09:36 PM
#65
Me duelen las nalgas
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4chan, 7chan and their ilk are much more relaxing and amusing than most forums, if not as informative or useful for community building and friendly conversation.
The advantage to anonymous forums is there's no reason to be offended by anything. Anons should have no emotional, ethical or moral investment in any thread. There's no reason to take offense at any insult because nobody has any idea who the other posters are, unless they choose to use trips. They're like Fight Club. Trouble occurs only when, as with boxers, some idiots forget to confine their sparring to Fight Club and drag their undisciplined attitudes into public.
The tricky bit with forums that permit pseudonyms, aliases and semi-anonymous posting is that there's never any consensus on how such forums should be moderated. Most participants get it, but it takes only a handful of dunces to spoil the broth.
Overall, BF is moderated about as well as any, and better than many. It beats a hobbyist niche site I used to moderate, which lacked a consistent, coherent policy on moderation, use of aliases vs. real names, or any way to block or ignore idiots. It gets even trickier when you realize each sub-forum within a niche or hobbyist discussion site has its own unique personality, and each sub-forum must be moderated as a unique entity, rather than trying to impose excessive uniformity on every sub.
The advantage to anonymous forums is there's no reason to be offended by anything. Anons should have no emotional, ethical or moral investment in any thread. There's no reason to take offense at any insult because nobody has any idea who the other posters are, unless they choose to use trips. They're like Fight Club. Trouble occurs only when, as with boxers, some idiots forget to confine their sparring to Fight Club and drag their undisciplined attitudes into public.
The tricky bit with forums that permit pseudonyms, aliases and semi-anonymous posting is that there's never any consensus on how such forums should be moderated. Most participants get it, but it takes only a handful of dunces to spoil the broth.
Overall, BF is moderated about as well as any, and better than many. It beats a hobbyist niche site I used to moderate, which lacked a consistent, coherent policy on moderation, use of aliases vs. real names, or any way to block or ignore idiots. It gets even trickier when you realize each sub-forum within a niche or hobbyist discussion site has its own unique personality, and each sub-forum must be moderated as a unique entity, rather than trying to impose excessive uniformity on every sub.
02-07-16, 09:42 PM
#66
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02-07-16, 10:15 PM
#67
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FWIW, I spend a non-trivial amount of time on discussion boards on three different avocations (astronomy, golf, and cycling). My view is
1) Golfers seem to me to be (of the 3) the least informed about stuff in general and the most likely to post things that simply are not correct (golf related or not)
2) Astronomers and cyclists who post on discussion boards both seem to be of above average intelligence from what I can tell. However, cyclists (of the 3) are easily the most obnoxious.
3) Astronomers are the most welcoming and helpful to newbies from what I have observed (no pun intended). But if you are sensitive it is best to just stay away from discussions regarding the image quality of various refractor telescopes
dave
1) Golfers seem to me to be (of the 3) the least informed about stuff in general and the most likely to post things that simply are not correct (golf related or not)
2) Astronomers and cyclists who post on discussion boards both seem to be of above average intelligence from what I can tell. However, cyclists (of the 3) are easily the most obnoxious.
3) Astronomers are the most welcoming and helpful to newbies from what I have observed (no pun intended). But if you are sensitive it is best to just stay away from discussions regarding the image quality of various refractor telescopes
dave
02-08-16, 06:08 AM
#69
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All of them. In any event, my point was to suggest to the person who I quoted that the OP hasn't been reading the responses.
02-08-16, 07:01 AM
#71
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Meh.. this is really the wrong thing to get bent about. If you ask 10 people a question about lube, you'll get 14 different answers. But, whatevs... don't read through the B.S. and find the gems. I only posted because I'm offended that this is a topic. U wanna go? Bye.
02-08-16, 07:13 AM
#72
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I have to say in a world where advertising and marketing reigns supreme, forums are a breath of fresh air.
Sure you have to sift through things that some idiots say to get the accurate info, but you have to do that with any source of info these days.
Take magazines for example. I can't take them seriously anymore. They will say good things about any company that is willing to write a check for the most part.
On a forum you get real feedback from real people. Sometimes it's garbage, but more often than not you meet some people who you can identify as a person who knows what they are talking about, or even find lots of people agreeing on one thing and you can kind of use that as a guide to find the most accurate info.
Sure you have to sift through things that some idiots say to get the accurate info, but you have to do that with any source of info these days.
Take magazines for example. I can't take them seriously anymore. They will say good things about any company that is willing to write a check for the most part.
On a forum you get real feedback from real people. Sometimes it's garbage, but more often than not you meet some people who you can identify as a person who knows what they are talking about, or even find lots of people agreeing on one thing and you can kind of use that as a guide to find the most accurate info.
02-08-16, 07:19 AM
#73
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Yeah, just wondering why all the hype for a singer who sings the National Anthem at the Super Bowl. Why all the cheer? Is it the singer's performance that's the big deal? Or is it what the National Anthem represents?
02-08-16, 07:40 AM
#74
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Personally I've found this board quite helpful. I have an extended "bike gap" I quit riding bikes when I got my first car and have only recently returned to the fold so I sometimes feel like I'm in a strange land when I read about all of the newly developed technology in biking. Half the time I don't know what is even being talked about till I stick with the thread long enough to get it.
Every board, like every bar, has some people looking for a fight and it is best to avoid both but most posters on this board are at least trying to be helpful. Differences of opinion are what make horse (and bike) races.
Every board, like every bar, has some people looking for a fight and it is best to avoid both but most posters on this board are at least trying to be helpful. Differences of opinion are what make horse (and bike) races.
02-08-16, 11:35 AM
#75
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Oh no! A difference of opinion on a forum full of many random people?! Who'd have thunk it?
What?! Not everyone here has the personality and tact of Mary Poppins? Why, you'd never see THAT in the real world!
Quick! Quick! Serenity now!!!!!!
What?! Not everyone here has the personality and tact of Mary Poppins? Why, you'd never see THAT in the real world!
Quick! Quick! Serenity now!!!!!!