dksix

As I've posted, I finished my new bike a couple weekends ago. It's full internal cabling, with the rear brake and both shifter cables entering the frame at the front of the head tube. I'm using compact bars, MicroShift shifters that have side exiting cables and JagWire pro cable kit (I think it was the "pro" kit). It's the first time I installed new cables and housing, I think I could have gotten the housing a bit shorter but no by much.

On my old bike which has external cabling when I put the bike in the stand the fork will turn and I have to have something to hold the bars straight when I'm working on it. The new bike is different, when I put it on the stand the front stays straight due to the cable stiffness. The old bike's cable stops are on the downtube about 5" lower and to the sides which makes for a less restrictive hinge where the new bike's going in the head tube makes for shorter stiffer cables.

Is this normal for bikes with internal cabling? I used red housing in what seemed like a good idea at the time but it's the 3rd different red on the bike and I don't like it. I think I'm going to order new housing and want to be sure that I've not caused this someway with the length of the housings.

JohnDThompson 

Was the steering looser before you connected the cables? If possible, post some pictures showing the housing with the bars turned and straight.

Tim_Iowa

This isn't uncommon on the bike stand. If the headset bearings turn freely, the cables can easily exert enough force to "auto-center" the fork. Not a problem.

However, the cables shouldn't be stiff enough to affect the steering while riding. If they are, then you do have a problem.

Could you swap the cables inside the downtube? Some internal routings are open inside, but some have discreet internal tubing that would prevent this technique.
I.e., run the right/rear cable to the LEFT side of the headtube, and the left/front cable to the RIGHT side of the headtube, and cross them inside. So-called "crossover" cable routing makes a wider cable curve with a larger radius.

dksix

I'm sorry, horrible job explaining. It's not an issue while riding. Although this bike is very quick handling and twitchy at speed I'm sure that's steering angle. This is just while on the stand, it holds the front wheel/fork/bars straight rather than turning like my other bike did. And yes, before the cables were installed the steering would turn freely (that was my first paint chip, my brakes hitting the downtube when the front freely turned when I turned my back). I'll get some pictures and post them, have a question about my RD cable too.

Thanks

dksix

When I turn the bars all the way around (more than I ever will during riding) the right cable gets tight but the left has some slack left. I would be better is I could run the cables on the opposite sides of the frame but where the FR cable exits the frame and goes back though the chain stays it has to be on the side it's on.




How about the RD cable housing, does this look about right?

techsensei

IMO, the cable housing is too short. While it's true you don't turn the bars that much while riding, there is undue stress at the ferrule where it enters the lever. That tiny bit of pulling can affect shift quality as well as causing the cable and housing to wear out faster. I like that you got the housing going into the rear derailleur at the proper length though; most people cut that too short as well.

rm -rf

My first reaction is to:
Shorten the front brake cable, so it's straighter up from the brake. But make sure you can turn the bars all the way.
The rear brake cable looks about right. I turn the bars all the way to make sure it won't bind.

I try to get the two brake cables to just clear the bottom of the stem faceplate, so they won't touch or bind on the faceplate bolts. But that might not quite work with your internal rear brake frame entry point.

Cut the red cable tie holding the two brake cables together. I assumed these two cables would move a lot relative to each other as the bar is turned, but actually, on my bike, they barely slide past each other at all.

The shifter cables seem short, but maybe it's just the angle that they come off the bar shifters. I'm used to seeing an overlap between the loops. My under-the-bar wrap shift cables move relative to each other as I turn the wheel, so I wouldn't clip them together.
The right shift cable, (left in the photo) looks shorter than the other. I'd probably try a slightly longer left shift cable, and considerably lengthen the short right side one to be symmetrical from the front of the bike. I'd start with an overlap about the width of the head tube, and see how that looks.

I usually end up trimming the housing a few times, even a quarter inch, to get everthing just right before I grind off the ends of the housing. With under the tape cabling, I push the shifter end in all the way, temporarily tape the cable to the bars (narrow ripped strips of duct tape is easy) and hold up the frame end to estimate the length, cut it, push into the frame socket and evaluate. I then recut once or twice until it's just right.

The rear derailleur housing looks good, with a straight connection to the derailleur itself.

Nice looking bike!

~~~~~~~~~~

Adjusting bar height
Are you set with the stem length and spacers under the stem?
If you might move it later, try to allow for that change in position. But that's the problem with new bikes, they had to allow room for an unknown rider to make adjustments and so the cables are kind of sloppy looking.

~~~~~~~~~~

(There's not many google image photos of road cabling.)
I'd overlap the shifter cables even more than this photo:

dksix

@TEChsense @rm -rf

I agree with everything both of you have said, and looking at the pictures it obvious that the cables are too short (especially to the right shifter cable). Right now they are making about a 90 degree bend from the shifter to the frame, when I had them longer they would come out of the shifter and go past the head tube and then have to bend back around at a tight bend to enter the holes in the frame. I started out with them longer (I cut about 1/2" off the left twice and ended up getting the right one shorted with the 3rd 1/2 cut). I think it would be much better if they could run on the opposite sides of the frame but they are where they are going to have to be due to how they come out at the bottom bracket.

I wanted to shorten the front brake housing but getting it close to vertical causes it to interfere with the shifter cable going into the frame. And I also have the housing too long coming out of the frame to the rear brake. It's just got a lot going on up there in a pretty compact area. I wonder if using shifters that routed both cables under the tape would be better one this bike. I ordered a 5800 group for this bike but they were out of the GS rear RD once and the 30 tooth cassette the other time. I had all of these parts and just went with them. I really like the way these shifters actuate.

Looigi

Minimum housing length is usually determined by turning the bars as far as they will go left and right (or 180 degrees, whichever comes first) and ensuring that the housings don't get bent or pulled out of the cable stops. This is longer than necessary for riding, but prevents damage while handling and moving the bike.

rm -rf

Oh, now I see how the front brake cable might interfere with the shifter cables.

From Park Tool, an example of crossing over shifter cables along the down tube. I wonder if your internal cables could do this?

dksix

Velo Dog

Full disclosure: I lost interest before I got to the end of the comments, so somebody else may have said this, but if it doesn't bother you when you're riding, is it a problem?

dksix

It doesn't seem to effect riding but yes, while riding it bothers me knowing it's not right. I'm one of those people that can't sit in a room knowing the picture on the wall isn't plum. What bothers me most is that the 2 obviously isn't the same length (this is the first time I've done complete from scratch cable install) and since I'm going to redo them anyway I thought I'd ask for advice here.

cyclist2000

i would get rid to the little black tie that binds the shifter cables together.

rm -rf

The rubbing at the crossover is mentioned in the Park Tool page. It's really minimal, and won't fray the cables. You need to change at least the front shift cable periodically, anyway. (they tend to break from flexing at the curve within the shifter body)

~~~
How do you fish the cables inside the downtube? I wrote up a method using some temporary thin tubing in this post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Inline adjusters
These adjusters allow shift tension adjustments by turning the adjuster. You could get an inline adjuster, or perhaps there's one that would fit onto the hole at the head tube.
The rear derailleur has an adjuster built in, but a second at the front of the bike is convenient. And the front derailleur doesn't have one, so an adjuster at the front would make it way easier to set the front shifting correctly.
Jagwire instructions

dksix

I used a piece of 1/32 (.031") SS filler rod used for TIG welding and 1/16 polytube. The filler rod is really stiff and comes in 36" lengths. I stuck it through the frame and then slide the polytube to slide on the filler rod through the frame. Then I pushed the inner cable through the polytube. I just used the stuff I had on hand the night I needed to do it.

rm -rf

Oh, the rod and tube worked well.

This time, use the thin tubing, but remove the cable crimp and thread the tubing on from the wire end until it comes out the head tube hole. You want at least 4-6 inches extra at each end of the frame. Now you can hold onto the tubing and pull the wire out.

Then, when you are ready to reinstall, just push the wire through the tubing all the way, and as the last step, pull the tubing out of the frame from the back. I never thought about doing it this way, it's much easier for changing cables that were previously installed.

I got a length of the thin tubing from the LBS. It's thin, and the wire just fits into the tubing.

andr0id

I agree.

Both shift cable housing are about an inch or inch and a half too short coming out of the shift lever.

The front brake cable housing is about 2" too long.

Rear brake cable might be about an inch too long.

dksix

Are you speaking about the cable housing in the front before it goes into the head tube or at the brakes where it comes out of the top tube? I think it's too long at the back but it's not the focus of any of the pictures, though you can see it back there in one of them.

andr0id

I meant the front. The back might be a little long also.

I usually cut long and then snip off a 1/4" or 1/2" until I get my lengths to what is my experience correct. The general rule is that cables should enter stops squarely and have nice curves without a double curve.

Once I get housing the length I like for a specific bike, I will cut replacement housing the exact same length.

dksix

@andr0id

I guess I'm getting my experience now, should have bought the Bell cables from Walmart to get them wrong with. I'll get 1 more go at wrapping my bars too!

dksix

I've replaced my cables and adjusted housing lengths as recommended here, it has taken care of the stiffness I was inquiring about. Thanks all