First crash, flip over
 

Yesterday did a complete flip over landing on the pavement on my road bike. Was total surprise as I at the moment when I pulled the front brake thought was no different than thousands of times before, but in a flash I was aware I was in midair going over. No broken bones but definite deep bruising. Shoulder, side of face, elbow, knee and edge of helmet took the brunt.
I have spent the day in bed trying to figure out just what went wrong. Have I been on the edge of flipping but just hadn't gotten there or was something different?
Its a new bike to me, just built it up. A move from a converted mountain bike to a Lemonds wayzata. I was going fairly fast had just rounded a corner and slowing for an intersection. But either applied mega force to the brake immediately or it reacted differently. Im not sure but i may of been in the lower position with the right hand on the furthest out hand position (not the TT bars they were not involved) and the left hand pulled back to apply the brake.
All I can think of is that maybe my center of weight was too far forward? Or the front brake just grabbed too quick?
I do love to ride fast, its an adrenalin rush but I've decided I dont like going over head first and slapping payment. Any thoughts appreciated on sorting this out in an attempt to not repeat it. (good news is bike is almost unscathed, seat took the hit)
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7...psuo9jaj7m.jpg
[IMG]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e7...pspp7b7r1m.jpg[/IMG]

Two of the common cause of front brake endoscopy are not having enough weight on the saddle, and letting the bike stop but not the body.

The first is pretty obvious, if you don't have your ass firmly on the seat, it let's the rear wheel lift in response to the front brake force. Once that begins, the geometry changes, and less force is needed to continue the roll.

The second is vertical different. The bike weighs between a fifth and tenth what you do. So very little is needed to stop it. If you don't brace with your arms, the bike stops suddenly, but you keep moving forward, until you go as far as you can, then your momentum takes you and the bike into a rollover. It's analogous to a passenger in a car without a seat belt hitting the windshield, but plays out differently.

The second is pretty common, and a good reason to take descents in the drops. You get to descend faster, but are in a properly seated and braced position so you and the bike are one.

I cant imagine that I had lifted off the seat at that moment. But maybe I have too much weight on my hands on the bars?
I am thinking of removing the extended stem 140 and putting back the original 120, then adjusting the seat back by that much. I am comfortable with the current setup, no knee soreness (took some dialing in to get that), I do tend to slide back on the seat. Maybe even 20mm would change the geometry a bit?
Would weighing the front wheel and rear wheel with me on the bike give me an indication of my weight distribution on the wheels?

Agreed on the drops, but unfortunately decades of long distance running has rendered by back not quite ready for drops, maybe over time as my biking is a new found hobby of 5 months now.

Raise the bars if necessary. It's hard to get your ass back and down on the seat, and arms braced levering the brake's over the hoods.

Weight distribution combined with height. If deceleration moves your COM past the front axle, then you're gonna do a Superman Dismount. Some bikes are more resistant than others; I'm not sure that even a stick in the front spokes would do it to me on my avatar bike. Anyway, it's good to hear you're not a new member of the broken clavicle club.

no idea.. I'm only interested because I never knew there was a Wayzata model.. yet I went to HS there.

Are the crappy pictures supposed to show something?

They say a picture is worth a thousand words, if these pics are worth 20 they might show the handlebar setup and invite opinion or wisdom in regards..no?

Hard to ride in the drops when he does not have any.

photo added after my post.

Other than the discussion of the drops, all the rest applies. "seatbelting" your ass in the saddle via proper bracing is a key element of controlled hard braking.

In any case, it might help is the OP observed his position on the bike while riding. When I'm working with someone one on one, I take them to the strip mall and have them look at reflections of themselves in storefront windows. Sometimes I'll ride next them the reflections superimpose and they can compare their position to mine.

With any new-to-you bike, always practice emergency braking in various conditions before hitting the road -- literally.

And be prepared to sacrifice some rubber or skin in pursuit of learning the balance and characteristics of your bike and tires. It's gonna come off your brake pads, tires, shoes or body. With luck it'll all be rubber, no skin.

When I got my first bike, a heavy comfort hybrid, in 2015 after 30 years away from cycling I practiced emergency braking, first on grass to get accustomed to the skidding characteristics. That was fine with the original tires. But when I put on new tires with more aggressive tread and repeated the exercise the front tire dug in rather than skidding. I went over the bars feet first and landed on my feet. It was nearly a perfect dismount -- until I realized what I'd done and flopped on the ground out of shock. Good thing I practiced on fairly soft grass first.

I repeated the exercise when I got a rigid frame 1990s mountain bike last year. It skids predictably and doesn't nose dive like the comfort hybrid with spring suspension fork.

And I repeated the exercises again with the road bike I got last week. Very different creature. With skinny 700x23 tires and nominal tread, and incredibly sensitive side pull brakes, it likes to skid that rear tire just for giggles. And while I like the comfort of the Lycra fabric over foam saddle, it tends to have a bit of friction that hinders quickly scooting backward off the saddle to prevent endos. So I need to keep working on that.

So, while you're recuperating, watch some YouTube tutorials on emergency braking and maneuvers, and practice them after you're feeling better. Get a mentor or guide if you're not sure. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. If you practice the wrong stuff it'll get embedded in muscle memory and will lead you astray later.

This is a helpful explanation, thank you. I've never thought of this in exactly this way, fortunately I've never gone over the bars either. I was in a couple of very hard braking situations last week (fortunately I was down in the drops). I've practiced hard stops but I'm going to do some while paying attention to this to see what I'm actually doing.

Thats a great idea, window reflections of my posture, I think I know my positioning but have never seen it reflected back, thank you for that thought.

They show that the OP's bike has aero bars, and those tend to shift weight distribution forward, exacerbating the tendency to go over the bars with a front wheel lock-up.

Some similarities, I had been off a bike for close to thirty years, dug out a barely used mountain bike, fixed it up and started riding in January this year, very comfortable 2 inch cromoly heavy bike, cant imagine it flipping...
Setup and started riding the Lemond a month ago, have experienced several rear wheel skids and can predict when it will skid and where the skid will go. I ride in a hilly city, every ride has steep hills up and down, never any issues or problems. Yet on a flat part of my 15 mile longer ride, I flip. That's what has me thinking it is a riding behavior I am expressing that isnt done on the down hills, which is the stretch out, I keep my hands on the flat part of the bars with hands on brake levers on the hills, too many road repairs etc to play Russian roulette with.

That brings up a question, is the balance sensitive enough to tip the wrong way with the pound added by the aero bars? I wasn't on them at the time...

In general, I'd say "no," but it does depend on the frame geometry and your riding position on the bike.

I am unable to get on the bike today with my banged up body but as soon as I can i'll assume the position and get a pic to post you guys have me very curious..

The weight of the bars themselves is meaningless. Anyway they're part of the bike and move it's CoG forward by maybe an inch at the most.

But if the arrangement of main bars is such that you're more forward or your torso is higher, that does matter.

One thing we used to do BITD before the "scientists" took over was look down to the front wheel between the axle and point of contact on the ground. How our line of sight passed those references gave us a sense of where our heads were, and by extension our bodies.

50 years later, I still take that visual reference when I'm on a strange bike and it helps me tune my expectations. I'll also do a brake punch from time to time, locking the front wheel momentarily and lifting the rear before dropping it back down. Keeping tuned to how the bike handles makes me better equipped for the unexpected.

I did this quite a bit when I first got my road bike and it did help. More so than trying to take a photo/video of myself since I was always alone.

Always put a new bike through its paces before you go on a serious ride. I'll try the front and rear brakes together light-pull, individually light-pull, then medium pull then hard pull to see how the bike and I react. Brakes today exert a lot of force with the advancement in technology. That can be good but it can also come as a nasty surprise as you found out.

Front brakes can be dangerous things if not worked correctly with the back brake. Yes, the front brakes apply better leverage for braking but I don't rely on my front brake most of the time. I brake routinely with mostly my back brake. If I have to stop in a hurry I modulate the front brake while squeezing slightly harder with the front brake while increasing pressure with the back brake. If the back brake locks up the wheel it's not nearly as big a problem as the front brake locking up the front wheel.

Get back on the bike and ride. Put the brakes through their paces on dry and wet pavement. One thing that has really brought me to the ground in a hurry is if I'm applying the brakes moderately hard and hit a rut in the road. That sudden weight shift can spell disaster. Was there a slight rut or bump in the road when you went over?

That's part of the puzzlement on this fall, a rare smooth (well my various road rashes would beg to differ) piece of road that contrasts with the majority of my several regular rides. I have used those brakes up and down hills, over rough roads, bumps. You know what now that i think about it, several weeks ago while waiting for cross street traffic, seeing a clearing only to be surprised by a car that a block up pulled out quickly and causing me to hit my brakes quickly. My rear wheel popped up and I caught it coming down sightly sideways. I was standing on the pedals as one does to quickly pickup speed to cross a busy street. Maybe this bike as was mentioned is more susceptible to flipping, well at least with a newbie rider, and here I thought I was getting it down with the bike, love how this bike corners and accelerates.

The bike has V-Brakes.

Sounds like the OP is just jamming them on.

The aero bars are not right for that bike. They have to go.

And the saddle looks pushed back.

A Lemond Wayzata isn't a TT bike but it is being ridden like one.

-Tim-

Which had nothing to do with this incident.