f4rrest

I'd be cranky too on a keto diet.

f4rrest

I see what you did there.

#sigworthy

SquidPuppet

50% of the posts claim one thing as fact, the other 50% claim the opposite as fact. They can't both be correct. So half of the posts are without a clue.

That's a lot.

austinmike84

Most likely water weight, one theory is that as fat cells release triglycerides it is replaced with water. In a few days, your body will release the water. Often referred to as the whoosh effect.

redlude97

Do you still believe humans cannot undergo gluconeogenesis?

wolfchild

Gluconeogenesis has nothing to do with converting fat into glucose...Gluconeogenesis is a process where protein and amino acids are converted to glucose...Humans can't convert fat to glucose.. Fat and fatty acids can be only converted into ketone bodies and used for energy in absence of carbs...The whole idea of keto diet is for your body to go into ketosis and run on ketones instead of glucose...On keto diet majority of calories should be coming from fat. Eating too much protein while on keto diet can actually knock the person out of ketosis...The aim of keto diet is to go into ketosis and not into gluconeogenesis.

RunForTheHills

Isn't weighing your food and waste a sign of having an eating disorder?

redlude97

So how do you explain glycerol, one of 4 main components of triglycerides(fat) being converted to glucose via the same gluconeogensis biochemical pathway?

This isn't ****ing new science, as i posted above, its been proven unequivocally via labeled glycerol for over 2 decades https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7647479. If you don't have pubmed access, i can provide the article as a pdf via email

I-Like-To-Bike

Possibly a mental disorder.

WizardOfBoz

tl;dr, at least I didn't read all of the responses.

I'm trained as an engineer, with a specialty in control systems. I also have done research and modeling in weight control. There are three things I'd advise you about.
1) Too much information. Weight fluctuates all day, and can depend upon exercise, diet, water intake, emotional state, the mental and physical demands of daily activities, basal metabolic rate, and so forth. As such, if you weigh yourself more than once a day, you are on a fool's errand: the data you get are meaningless in the context of long-term weight control. Not debatable, there are no scientifically sound counter-arguments: it's meaningless.
2) Time constants. A former colleague (K. Hall) is a tenured researcher studying weight at the NIH. His models (and data) show that if you cut down on your caloric intake, it takes months to realize a substantial fraction of the total final weight reduction you would expect. This underscores point 1, above: if you measure weight more than once a day you are measuring noise. Even worse if you act upon these data. It's useless: stop it.
3) Set points. Your body adapts over the long term to the weight you are, and fights attempts to change. This was pointed out to me by Dr. Hall and another former colleague, Dr. D. Polidori. If you starve yourself for a few days, you'll lose some weight but the body responds by turning down the furnace and you regain most of that weight in a week or so. Think about a time you had the flu: you may have lost weight but your body regained it after you recovered, right? This implies that binge fasts are not gonna contribute much long-term weight loss and health and fitness. In fact, binge fasts are known to create health problems. Binge fasting can hurt you and won't help you with long-term weight control. Stop doing that.

If you are serious about long term, sustainable weight loss, then set up a healthy diet with lots of veggies and fiber and an exercise routine and stick with them. With your routine set, weigh yourself only at one specific time after you rise (and take care of any bathroom needs). You probably should do this only once a week. (You can will see a significant difference when you weigh yourself early on a Friday morning after you got home late on Thursday and ate late, and on a Sunday morning after you had a light dinner Saturday and slept in, and the difference is meaningless and completely uninformative for long term weight trends).

The dietary data you keep is cool. If you really want to exploit it to the max, discuss it with a Registered Dietician. They have a LOT of good training and knowledge. That said, even in a "metabolic unit" (the clinical setting where they do weight loss and other studies, and where every scrap of food is noted), clinicians expect a lot of variability in the quality of caloric data.

The point is, there is noise, variability, and error in EVERY data stream in science an engineering. When the human body is involved, there is a LOT MORE noise, variability and error. No exceptions. Measuring your weight five times a day gives you no advantages over once per week, for the purpose of long-term weight control. In fact, it's counterproductive. You are measuring noise and error, and attempting to act on them. So:

1) Stop measuring short term weight data - it's not helping you and obviously frustrating you
2) Stop doing short term (e.g. fasting) stuff to get long-term weight loss - it won't work
3) Do measure weight at most once per day, upon rising. Better yet? Measure once per week on the same day, and same conditions.
4) Do set up a reasonable exercise plan and stick to it
5) Do set up a reasonable, balanced and healthy diet with lots of veggies and fiber, and stick to it
6) If you really want to monitor your diet as closely as you have, get the most out of the data by consulting a registered dietician or physician.
7) If you don't see a weight trend in a month or two, lower (slightly) the calories and make sure you are sticking with your exercise plan.

At the risk of feeding a mania (sorry, that's how it looks), I will share Dr. Hall's "Body Weight Planner" that will compute information that may be of use in your goals. It's here.

Last, if this relates to a significant health risk, see a properly trained and licensed health care provider. A health care provider who has examined you and knows your medical history is the best person to diagnose and treat your health problem. If you have specific health questions, please consult your health care provider.

wolfchild

It is and it's very common. There are a lot of people who have OCD about their food.

WizardOfBoz

By the way, the gluconeogenesis thread is interesting. Basically when you eat, you get macronutrients: carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. All can provide energy, but do so at different times. After you eat your body stores energy by taking fat into cells and storing carbohydrates (mostly glucose) as glycogen in the liver. There are lots of carbs in the bloodstream, and the body switches to mostly using carbohydrates for energy, while doing this storage. After you fast a bit, the body starts to break down glycogen in the liver to glucose and releases it to the bloodstream. Also after fasting, your body starts to break down fat in the cells (mostly in adipose cells), and this is released to the blood stream. The fat components glycerol and non-esterified fatty acids (NEFAs) are taken up by cells that need energy.

Diabetes is often characterized as a disease of poor blood sugar (glucose, the main carbohydrate) control but it can also be thought of as a body having poor ability to switch between using carbs after a meal, to using fats after a fast.

The brain strongly prefers glucose as its fuel source. It can't use the major component of fats (the NEFAs). Gluconeogenesis is the production of glucose from non-glucose sources, and it is upregulated after fasting. The sources are certain amino acids, the fat component glycerol (a fat molecule is made up of glycerol and three NEFA molecules), and lactate. So gluconeogenesis can use one part of a fat molecule (glycerol) but not the major energy-containing part of that fat molecule.

So:Is correct about the major energy-containing component of fat, but the glycerol portion of fat is very easily converted to glucose.

gilpi

I'm not sure how not eating for 5 days is healthy or even a way to lose weight. I say just stop eating altogether.
Seriously, fad diets are a dime a dozen. There is a very easy way to lose weight, eat a little less on your meals, cut back on carbs, (processed food flour and sugar) and ride your bike often, this advice is free from someone that has done it... not only myself but many people around me as well. Don't expect weight loss after a ride or in a day or even a week, set yourself realistic goals say five pounds a month, though you may think its not a lot, in one year you would have lost around 60 pounds. That is a lot of weight, real weight, not water and you won't have to take a science class to lose a few pounds. Good luck.

WizardOfBoz

Actually, they both could be wrong.

SquidPuppet

Even a lotter then.

ThermionicScott 

The OP is a human, right? Is there any worthwhile reason to use non-human biology in a discussion about cycling?

WizardOfBoz

Heh heh. Yup!

Lovenutz

I don't really get the question. You are wondering why you weigh more after eating and less after fasting? Weight can fluctuate quite drastically even through out the course of 24 hours. Weigh your self in the morning, mid day, and evening to see for yourself. Your body weight can vary by as much as 8 pounds. Your clothes can make a difference too.

Get into the habit of weighing yourself naked every morning to get a better idea.

It sounds like your weight gain was due to water.

knitguy

And if not body dysmorphic disorder they either have an eating disorder or are on the road to one (and in serious denial). There is no rational reason to weigh oneself yourself upwards of 4 times a day. OP - I highly suggest talking to a doctor, preferably a therapist, about this, for your own sake.

coominya

My sister is fully vegan and is as fat as a whale. It's the cakes and cream buns that do it.

coominya

If waste isn't a typo for waist or Weight, then definitely.

HerrKaLeun

+1000

Best comment in this thread. Scientific, true and easy to understand.

canklecat

I've seen this sort of weight gain with other folks who went vegan. They were constantly hungry and craved sweets and carbs. When some of them compromised on at least a mostly vegetarian diet that included some seafood or poultry but omitted beef and pork they were better able to shed weight and keep it off.

They were surprised at their weight gain, when they could point to images of people in other cultures who were rail thin on vegan diets. I didn't point out that in many of those cultures they were rail thin from the lack of choices of food and near absence of sugary fast foods, which we have in greater abundance than grocery stores in the U.S. (And as the American influenced diet takes over in other countries, they're gaining weight too.)

I've seen many folks who have limited mobility -- including my mom -- become grotesquely overweight because of the typical diet vicious circle/cycle:
They live in a food desert. The grocery store is many blocks or miles away, separated by busy streets with inadequate traffic control. It's terrifying to cross those streets at the slow pace of an elderly person on a cane, walker or in a wheelchair. So they don't go grocery shopping.

But there's always a convenience store within 400 yards, filled with overpriced sugar bombs, fatty and salty foodlike substances. So they eat that.

If they're really unlucky they live in apartment complexes filled with vending machines stuffed full of overpriced empty snacks.

After a few months or years of that, they're simultaneously too obese and malnourished to use their canes or walkers. But they qualify for powered wheelchairs, which enables them to really load up on the sugar bombs from the convenience store.

I took over my managing my mom's diet 10 years ago when I saw her weight balloon to nearly 200 lbs (on a tiny frame). Her in home aides weren't helping, nor was meals on wheels (every day, boiled chicken, broccoli and mashed potatoes -- every day). She couldn't even get off the sofa without help. Just by changing to a healthy but satisfying diet with plenty of meat, eggs and traditional sources of protein we've gotten her weight back down below 130. She uses her cane or walker more often now, rather than the power wheelchair. And she doesn't crave the sugar bombs as badly, so occasionally I'll buy a container of ice cream for her to help herself. Years ago she'd eat a half gallon of ice cream in a day. Now it lasts a week or longer.

No major changes or sacrifices. Same diet that got my own weight down from 205 to 160, gradually and with little sensation of making any sacrifices. I stopped paying attention to the dietary guidelines about red meat, animal fat, butter and eggs and just ate those as often as I wanted, which was never in excess anyway. I plateaued at 175 lbs for awhile, but resuming cycling in 2015 after 30 years away pared that down to 160.

Now I can concentrate on whining about my aching neck and shoulders, instead of whining about my aching lower back, knees and hips. Yay. Getting old is fun.

SquidPuppet

What I bolded.

Trsnrtr

Thought the same thing... butter, eggs, etc.