Steve Whitlatch 

Cheap low end steel bike will have cheap heavy wheels and very heavy tires.
Cheap low end Aluminum bike will have heavy wheels and tires.
The biggest differences will be in the wheels and tires from my experience. Fit, tires, wheels.

I can take a average sluggish road bike and completely change it into a lively fast bike by changing the tires to a high end race set. Its the rotational weight that matters the most.

Trakhak

Love my aluminum bikes. Haven't had any urge to ride my Reynolds 531 and Reynolds 853 bikes in many years.

Dirt Farmer

Wow, I'd be the complete opposite from you. Those are two fine Reynolds blends.

Trakhak

I've done a lot of miles on great, top-shelf Columbus and Reynolds steel race bikes over the years. Nothing wrong with them; I just prefer the torsional rigidity of aluminum for high-speed descents on rough pavement.

Other than that, since my steel and aluminum bikes have the same geometry and comparable wheel sets, they all ride the same to me, so why not go for the lighter-weight alternative?

Maelochs

I hate to have to say it ... but frame material is pretty much meaningless. it is all about design and build. Anyone who has tried one of Cannondale's better offerings and thinks all steel is significantly better ... well, some folks think the Earth is flat too.

A really good steel frame can be as hard and harsh or as responsive or as flexy as aluminum, CF or titanium. it is all in the design and build. Same for every other frame material except maybe bamboo ... i don't own a bamboo bike so I cannot say.

This basic fact has been stated so many times and so clearly ... it is absolutely ridiculous to keep debating it ... which I guess makes it the perfect topic for this site.

One last time: with feeling:

Any frame material can be made into any type of frame with any characteristics. Design and build mean more than material. No specific material is limited to certain characteristics, nor the sole possessor of those characteristics.

Steel can be overly stiff, harsh, and unforgiving. Aluminum can be amazingly comfortable and responsive. Titanium can be rigid. Shoot, you could make a heavy, dead-feeling CF frame if you so desired.

Ride whatever you like and like whatever you ride, and if lying to yourslf about your bike's frame material improves your experience ... well, it's your life.

ironwood

I can't wait for bikes made of graphene.

Dirt Farmer

Or Balsa.

berkeley23

i seem to have generated a lot of discussion with this thread - i am almost as confused as i was, but i think i will go to my LBS and try some different bikes out.

for what it is worth, i just weighed my bike and it is 41 lbs. - i always struggle with it going up or down stairs for public transit.

i am more of a pleasure/commute rider so i don't need CF or anything too fancy - looking to spend around $200 - $300 on a second hand bike. hoping that a new bike will allow me to ride some hills, not be so slow, etc.

thanks to everyone for your input and suggestions - it has given me a lot to think about!

FlMTNdude

First, buy the aluminum bike, mostly because the more bikes the better.
That said, I own a steel bike weighing in towards the 30 lb mark. A lighter bike can fee faster, or slower. A decent set of wheels/tires and a well maintained bike, even if heavier, may well be the difference between slow and fast. Don't forget to make sure the engine is running properly as well. I don't ride group much, but can hold my own no problem, even one time with a Colagno in the group.

daviddavieboy

I can relate to this. My 2000 Pinarello can be . . . scary on rough or poorly paved roads when over 40 mph, where my carbon SuperSix is dead straight on the same wheels. On a long ride though I feel beat up on the carbon bike.



Quality trumps everything else. Don't be afraid of the age as long as the condition is good. Even buying a good frame and building it up should be considered as a option. The parts you have may be used temporarily until better ones become available.

jefnvk

Don't worry, nearly anything can generate a lot of discussion here!

Even as one who doesn't mind heavy steel bikes, 41# is crazy heavy, I'm guessing an old 60s Schwinn? Three of mine weight in around 30# with racks and fenders, and as previously mentioned the lightest is 21#, and the fifth around 25#. Frame material makes a bit of difference, but not as much as overall quality and other components.

fietsbob

thing is... now Aluminum (Hydroformed,welded) predominates the frame market..
to make them reliable the designs minimize flex.

but high end steel uses that material's flexibility to be springy.. (modulus of elasticity)

Lower end Hi Ten steel uses more steel for reliability. they are heavier frames too..






...

Trakhak

That line of reasoning has never made sense to me. Steel bike frames, like all bike frames, are designed to be as light as possible and appropriate for the intended type of use given the constraints of dent resistance and other aspects of reliability. Springiness (to the extent that it exists at all in what is in effect, from the designer's point of view, a horizontally compliant, vertically rigid two-dimensional structure) is a design by-product, not a goal.

Waltsmith

There is so much to consider other then just the metal. Most people that are singing the praises of steel bikes are refusing to more expensive double butted steel bikes. Years ago, you had cheap steel bikes made from what seemed to be water pipe and steel bikes with double butted tube I got, often using lugs and even brazing instead of welding.

In case you are confused by the tears "double butted", what it refers to is a tube that is thinner in the center then the two ends.

Then came Alum bikes. Alum has to be 3x thicker to give the same strength of steel. The early alum bikes were all straight alum tubeing that had much more thickness then the steel tubeing. These bikes were incredibly stiff. You felt every crack in the pavement and would damn near loose the filling in your teeth riding down a sidewalk. Well now they have double butted alum tubing as well. Plus the newer bikes also have tubing that changes shape over its length to "tune" the frames even more.

So what do you care, right? Well now a days, it really comes down to price. The cheap bikes, weather steel or alum are going to be stiff. The more expensive alum bikes will be a lot lighter and much more comfortable to ride then the cheap steel bikes.

So if you are looking a bike that orginaly cost less then about $300, dosent matter alum or steel, they will tend to be heavy and stiff.

Another thing to consider is the gearing. Most moderate priced hybrids will have a 21 speed gear set now a days. Not a bad thing, except it is normally a mountain bike gear set, and as such has you spinning your heart out when trying to keep up with road bikes. That is not the case 100% of the time, some 21 speed gear sets include a larger big chain ring, but in general. Most 21 speed bikes are geared quite low. And as others have noted, the riding position is a big factor.

So spending your money for a true upgrade here, we want a "sport" hybrid, with a 24 speed gear set, made from double butted alum tube set, with 700c wheels and 28 c tires that are made to be inflated to 75psi. Then only your legs will be the reason you are left behind. Just thinking out loud, do you inflate your tires to their max pressure before your ride? If you answer is "well I pumped them up last week". Then it a good bet that other will leave you behind. I know it sounds way too simple, but what about you seat height? If you can sit on your saddle and put your feet flat on the ground, your seat is way too low. Unless you stand to pedal, you are loosing a lot of power and not doing your knees any favors.

berkeley23

the 41# is not a 60s Schwinn - it is a 97 (I think - it is green) DB Sorrento rigid frame/no suspension. It does have a rack on it. When I finally weighed it I felt like not-such-a-wimp for struggling with it.

Had an old 60s Murray Polaris that was probably lighter than this bike! It was so awesome someone stole it
And to answer the other questions, yes, it is recently tuned and yes, the seat is adjusted correctly. I fly on my friend's bike, looking forward to getting a lighter one that fits me better!

friday1970

For the longest time, I stopped riding my old steel 501 based Peugeot and rode my aluminum Nishiki. I bought larger 28mm GP 4k' tires for it, they didn't fit, and I put the tires on the peugeot and rode it just as a test. What was normally a rough route on the Nishiki had turned into a nice smooth one on the Peugeot. And I was only about 1/4mph slower.

Needless to say, I'm looking to possibly sell the Nishiki as it quickly has been relegated to the corner of my shed. At 46 years of age, rode bumps hurt more than the loss of 1/4mph.

Barabaika

The frame is heavy, but you have a feeling that it's slow because of the knobby tires.
You can try to install some city tires.

berkeley23

it has city slicks

getting ready to test-ride a miyata 310 this afternoon - it is a bit overpriced from what I can find around these forums, but it has a dual brake set up, which will help me maintain a more upright position, which I think will be more comfortable for my not-so-good back. It will also let me experiment with whether I think using the drops and being more aerodynamic makes me faster. haven't ridden with drop bars since I was around 11. and it is a steel frame - see, this thread helped me open my eyes about different frame materials

Lazyass

The early aluminum bikes were not stiff, they were super flexy, straight gauge with smaller tubes. Aluminum is not inherently stiff as some believe. Steel is actually a stiffer metal than alu alloys. Bikes like the Vitus flexed so much that racers were getting a ghost shift from the stays and BB flexing when they went out of the saddle to sprint. So they started going with oversize tubes which were butted to keep them light. Those are the stiff ones. The ride quality improved when they started hydroforming the tubes early this century.

Kapusta

There are reasons to choose a decent steel frame over a decent Al frame, and vice-versa.

IMO, weight is really not one of them.

The difference between steel and AL road bike frames of similar price point is probably a little over a pound. That is really quite insignificant if you prefer the ride quality of the steel frame. The suggestion that towards the end of a hard ride the extra weight is going to come and bite you is nonsense.

Of course, if you DON'T prefer the ride quality of steel, there is not much point to it. Then it is just heavier.

Frames of BOTH materials vary in ride quality, but I think that is more the case with steel frames.

Some over-built steel frame are as unforgiving as their Al counterparts and weigh more. My Surly Karate Monkey comes to mind. Not a smooth frame at all. A very "hard" ride.

OTOH, I had a 853 steel Zion single speed frame that felt pretty nice. Just enough spring without being flexy.

My Salsa Casseroll (road bike) is a compliant and smooth ride. I miss it now (my wife rides it). The downside was that it was a little flexy under out of the saddle hammering. But IMO it was a trade-off well worth it. No way any AL frame could have that same feel. IMO, that was a very good example of a steel frame that used the properties of steel to its full advantage.

Of course, if you want a frame that is stiff and does not flex much, AL is a fine choice, and even cheap ones usually accomplish that.

berkeley23

I just want to say - this is about the nicest corner of the internet I have ever found! I'm going to stick around for awhile - favorite threads so far are the ones that list various bikes to be had on CL and eBay, and the clunker fix-up challenge. I feel like I have leaned so much already! Thanks to everyone!!!

I did something tonight that I have never done before - passed two other bicyclists on my way to the store. Pretty exciting for me. I ended up buying the 1985 Miyata 310 & now I am flying. I used to feel even the slightest incline, but today's ride felt flat. Riding fast = riding fun! I can't believe how long I put up with my old clunker - although it probably got me in the best shape I have ever been. I used to have a 4 mile commute and at the end was a huge climb up a freeway overpass. Starting, I could barely get it up the hill, and pedestrians literally passed me. By the time I quit that job, I could get it up and over without standing up. Used to ride down standing in my pedals with no hands, arms outstretched - but that is a different story.

The trouble is, I have seen so much on here that I can't stop looking, and I am already drooling over other bikes. I guess I am in good company!

berkeley23

I did not want you to think I have learned nothing lurking in this forum - here's a pic:

Maelochs

Looks great. The angle of the photo makes them look like the notorious BoiPace chainrings. I like the color a lot.

I would definitely paint that wall, though ... that color is torture to me.

berkeley23

I can't believe you don't like my green screen!

Indeed it is a BioPace - Wikipedia says it has "retro-cachet"

I'm OK with being nerdy!

Barabaika

It's a very nice model of Miyata.
You should get some tools and overhaul the bike component by component. The front and rear hub, and the bottom bracket usually need new grease. Then you can change the brake pads...