pickettt

That would be "semantics," not a "play on words." Because some wants something, doesn't mean that they've bought it. In fact, the opposite; if I buy something I want, I no longer want for it. We can discuss rhetoric all day long, but this post was in reference to a business move and what it could mean for a brand. What is your purpose here?

mstateglfr 

Still loving this thread! The snobs vs antisnobs(who are apparently snobs as well) is just great theatre!
Keep it going, please!

bobwysiwyg

I find it hard to believe instill alive at all.

Nachoman

The Wallmart twins also have plans to buy Trek and make full carbon electric wheel chairs.

rydabent

Probably this whole thread can be summed up this way---------------dont be a snob.

DMC707

"Status" is a big part of why a stainless steel Rolex Submariner costs $8000, and an equally nice heavy stainless steel dive watch from Tag Heuer or Doxa , even Omega - costs 2500 - 3000 clams

Cheaper (cheap being relative) watches also have a quartz movement vs a mechanical movement - and I am not enough of a watch connoisseur to tell you why one is better than the other


Like stretching the budget to buy a last years closeout S Works Tarmac or Roubaix on your next bike purchase --- if you squint a bit and rationalize it, you might be able to convince yourself that a bike like that is justifiable, even at $7000 or so.
But the counterpoint is the Colnago C60 or Cippolini , at 12-15,000 that very few people would ever look at as a rational purchase.

But like the Rolex guy, the person who is riding the C60 probably likes the bike very much and applauds that decision every time he rides the bike regardless of what anyone else thinks

While the chap on the high end Specialized wearing his Omega, can be content in the fact that although he spent a chunk of cash sure, he/she got More bang for the buck, even if it's not as "high end" a name on the Downtube.


I work in a profession where it used to be almost customary to sport a nice timepiece if you have had a good year.
It's kind of an age thing though-- the younger guys don't subscribe to that philosophy and just wear Apple i watches. As for me? I'm still old school enough to like a nice watch, but I wear a Tag, not a Rolly, when the situation dictates looking sharp . Most of the time though- it's a Casio aviator style G-Shock

DMC707

Reminds me I need to watch Caddyshack today as it's raining out


The image of Ted Knight manically shouting -- "Well! We're waiting!,". Just popped into my head

DMC707

I forgot about this -- sheesh, $500 for jeans. Could it possibly be that the market has shifted away from that type of jean he was selling? (Weird embroidery, festooned with beads, etc. ). - now the only people (speaking about males primarily) I see wearing this garb are middle age guys who spend just enough time in the gym to justify rolling up the shirt sleeves of their ed hardy or tap out shirts and still wear backwards ball caps

Maybe like when 1991 or 2 rolled around and the staff at Members Only woke up and said --"Oh crap! Now what do we do??"

pickettt

Sure, it's possible.....but there's a pattern. I could give 50 examples, but I'll elaborate on a notion mentioned in this particular thread: If Rolex watches suddenly became available at $500, they would lose their exclusivity and demand would diminish. A $100 Citizen quartz watch keeps better time than a $7000 Rolex. That is a fact that I can personally attest to. Rolex owners will tell you "blah, blah, blah, craftsmanship, blah, blah, blah, heritage, blah". The truth is, they want to know (and for you to know) that they've got something that not everyone can obtain. Now, I'm not faulting them or judging them. It's their money, and they can spend it however they want. In fact, I'm happy for them, I love to see people succeed. Just don't lie to yourself about why you do what you do.

Romyan

I would think not.

pickettt

By the way, you will get SEVERELY FLAMED by a "real Rolex guy" for using the term "Rolly."

DMC707

Nothing spells "New money" like using the wrong nomenclature I guess

Maelochs

We all support near-to-slave labor .... every time we eat domestically produced chicken, fruits, or vegetables. Check out fruit-picking camps in Florida. Immigrants in chicken-processing plants. And better still ... conditions at Foxconn's Chinese plants were so bad workers were jumping out of windows to kill themselves. The solution is obviously to improve working conditions, right? No Foxconn installed nets. Know anybody who gave up their iPhones or Galaxy Notes?

Yeah ... some Rapha customers might be offended .... nothing a s sad as an offended hypocrite.

Possibly slightly different in that Coach is about 100 percent brand ... no real utility. No one thinks Coach bags are better .... they think the Brand is better.

Rapha apparently actually makes really high-quality gear ... and then sells it at a price representing both quality and brand exclusivity.

Diamond Back lost a lot of its cachet when it released lower-quality lines of bikes to be sold in big-box stores ..... no idea how that relates. I know it ruined the brand.

On another hand ... Walmart doesn't have a bike-clothing clientele. It does have a cheap-bike clientele. Walmart could introduce some "Rapha-Lite" brand ("Walfa") and never gain traction because No one goes to Walmart for anything but the cheap and the cheaper. Quality simply doesn't sell, because most of Walmart's customer base cannot afford quality.

Maelochs

Lamborghini released a Dodge-powered SUV a few decades back.

Porsche has offered an SUV for quite a while too.

BMW has a sport SUV. Mercedes has if G-Wagen or whatever, which is basically a tank. High profit margin.

I don''t think the management at Dodge has Anything to do with whether or not Ferrari releases an SUV. i think the folks at Fiat decided to test the waters, seeing that there is a lot of money out there and not a lot of people who want a two-seat sports car ... or who have a Ferrari, but also a family. Ferrari management said (maybe) "We sell them a 458 ... and they buy a Porsche or BMW or Lexus SUV. Let's sell them a second Ferrari."

By the way ... Ferrari has been owned by Fiat for decades. Now Fiat has bought out Chrysler. Dodge is a subdivision of Chrysler.

The sergeant doesn't tell the general how to run the army.

Maelochs

And All the low-cost big-box chains really do support labor abuse--Not of the U.S.-based employees (who really don't have it so bad---it's a crap job which pays crap, like any other) but by supporting overseas economies where workers are treated like animals, worked excessive hours with zero freedom, often forced to live in barracks, and have zero rights.

People get all upset because little middle-class Johnny can't get a night off to see his favorite rapper, while some mother of three is sitting on the concrete floor of an uninsulated metal hut in sweltering heat sewing sneakers for three cents a day with her kids on the floor around her, because there is no child care, no "safety net," her relatives also work in the same shed, and the alternative is starvation because the local economy has collapsed and the company hired by Walmart is the only employer.

Maelochs

I Strongly disagree.

What you call "change" is inherently infused with negativity ... just your outlook.

What I would expect would be that the Waltons continue to run Rapha exactly as is, except to open a few more storefronts in "appropriate" neighborhoods ... the tony shopping districts or whatever, or cities with sufficient cycling population and wealth.

Capital is generally a Good thing for a business. it allows expansion into underserved markets.

The idea that every business which gets an infusion of capital immediately runs for the lowest possible quality level is ... unfounded, shall we say?

As I mentioned above, Walmart has no cycle-clothing clientele. Setting up "Rapha" displays would be of no value--no matter How cheaply they were priced. People who want cycling gear beyond a cheap pair of plastic pedals for Junior's Walmart bike, don't go to Walmart.

Most likely the Walton business empire will continue to run Rapha as Rapha ... there simply isn't enough profit to be made by trying to sell cheap cycling gear in volume.

Likely one of the Waltons, who buys and wears Rapha gear, saw that the business was on the block and said, "Hey, that'd be a neat acquisition."

Right. All these people talking about "Is a Rolex better" fail to define "better" in meaningful terms. Cheap debating tactics or laziness, or just lack of cforethought?

With Rapha though "better" has a more tangible meaning ... as anyone who has worn Really cheap (not in price but in construction) shorts or bibs can appreciate. I cannot say what the actual dollar value of a Rapha bib might be ... but I can say from experience that a Quality cycling garment makes a big difference in comfort and lasts longer.

Rapha commands a higher price because of the cachet ... the name, the image, the marketing ... but also, Rapha is selling (as far as I know) some of the highest quality cycling garments out there. Maybe some of the other brands sell stuff just as good for less ... but it isn't like Rapha gets its stuff from the same production line as the $10 shorts sold at Walmart currently. We are talking a quality product in a filed where it matters.

In watches ... my $3 Timex quartz keeps time as well as any $10,0000 Swiss designer watch. But a $3 pair of shorts on EBay from China will not cosset my dangling modifiers like a quality product which costs much more.

Maelochs

Okay ... I have done my bit to keep this thread alive. I expect another ten pages out of the rest of you now.

howellhandmade

Strewth.

jefnvk

But most of what you did was quote me. Do you really expect me to come up with ten pages by myself?

I mean, I probably could, but is that what you really want?

pickettt

I completely agree that there is some garbage cycling clothing out there, which Rapha is not. Rapha makes good quality stuff. However, it is not leaps and bounds better than many reputable manufacturers at a more "reasonable" price point.

nycphotography

How many of those microbrewers has been less successful post AB/INBEV Buyout?

(hint: none of them)

jamesdelap

Wait, Walmart bought Rapha? Even if I were not already boycotting Walmart I would certainly no longer buy Rapha gear once they start selling it for cheap in Walmart stores

brianmcg123

No, they didn't.

Maelochs

The Waltons bought Rapha. Good night, John-boy.

I-Like-To-Bike

Have no fear, you will still be able to pay exorbitant Ralpha prices for your Ralpha bicycling apparel wherever such hotsy-totsy stuff is sold to discriminating fashionista.