Which of the four makes the best internally geared hub?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Which of the four makes the best internally geared hubs?
Of the four, (SRAM, Shimano, SA, and Rohloff) who makes the best? In terms of quality, longevity, ease of maintenance, pros & cons, etc. Does anyone have personal experience with their products that they could share? Thanks!
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
Sturmey Archer AW has been in production for 8 decades. I own three of them, each around 50 years old, and I've never seen one that was not either 100% functional, or trivially repairable. Huge numbers were made. The current production AW models are very close to the historical design. Spare parts are readily available, and are interchangeable across the decades. Its gear range is sufficient for a pretty wide range of riding conditions, yet it's simple enough for a layperson to service.
So it's also in a class of its own.
So it's also in a class of its own.
#5
Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 32
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
i think rohloff can't be compared at the moment, they are much more expensive.
i have a old nexus 7 on my gazelle, the base lineof shimano. i think the bike has around 17-20.000 miles and only recently i started to notice some signs of wear. i don't know if it's the hub or just need new cables and calibration.
on an older bike i have the venerable SA 3 but isn't working.
nexus 7 has not huge spread in gear ratios, i probably use 5. gear changes are not superfast but i saw no difference at all when tested bikes with more modern and expensive hubs. i have no idea about maintenance, i'll study because isn't worth asking to the shop.
i have a old nexus 7 on my gazelle, the base lineof shimano. i think the bike has around 17-20.000 miles and only recently i started to notice some signs of wear. i don't know if it's the hub or just need new cables and calibration.
on an older bike i have the venerable SA 3 but isn't working.
nexus 7 has not huge spread in gear ratios, i probably use 5. gear changes are not superfast but i saw no difference at all when tested bikes with more modern and expensive hubs. i have no idea about maintenance, i'll study because isn't worth asking to the shop.
#6
~>~
Sturmey Archer AW has been in production for 8 decades. I own three of them, each around 50 years old, and I've never seen one that was not either 100% functional, or trivially repairable. Huge numbers were made. The current production AW models are very close to the historical design. Spare parts are readily available, and are interchangeable across the decades. Its gear range is sufficient for a pretty wide range of riding conditions, yet it's simple enough for a layperson to service.
So it's also in a class of its own.
So it's also in a class of its own.
-Bandera
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Sturmey Archer AW has been in production for 8 decades. I own three of them, each around 50 years old, and I've never seen one that was not either 100% functional, or trivially repairable. Huge numbers were made. The current production AW models are very close to the historical design. Spare parts are readily available, and are interchangeable across the decades. Its gear range is sufficient for a pretty wide range of riding conditions, yet it's simple enough for a layperson to service.
So it's also in a class of its own.
So it's also in a class of its own.
Overhauling the hub was pretty simple and straight forward aside from having to replace a locknut and buy a new cable. Sheldon Brown makes finding part numbers (and thereby helping replace the part) a breeze!
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18376 Post(s)
Liked 4,511 Times
in
3,353 Posts
You might also look at Nuvinci which seems to have a growing following, with some reports that they have excellent strength and durability.
I thought I read earlier that SRAM was discontinuing at least some of their IGH offerings. Their future in the market might have me scared of taking the plunge with them if I felt there were other alternatives.
Overall, I'd encourage you to choose a hub based on the features you want.
I thought I read earlier that SRAM was discontinuing at least some of their IGH offerings. Their future in the market might have me scared of taking the plunge with them if I felt there were other alternatives.
Overall, I'd encourage you to choose a hub based on the features you want.
- Nuvinci: Continuously variable transmission.
- Rholoff: 14 speed
- Alfine: 7, 8, or 11 speed, good price points
Shimano also has a Di2 option with some of their hubs, allowing adaptability to road bikes and other platforms. - SRAM: Dual Drive. I think Sturmey Archer also has a Dual Drive verison available today.
- Sturmey Archer: 3 speed fixed, also some good 3 to 8 speed hubs. Also the Dual Drive option.
I think Sturmey Archer also may have the best support for bar end shifters.
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
You might also look at Nuvinci which seems to have a growing following, with some reports that they have excellent strength and durability.
I thought I read earlier that SRAM was discontinuing at least some of their IGH offerings. Their future in the market might have me scared of taking the plunge with them if I felt there were other alternatives.
Overall, I'd encourage you to choose a hub based on the features you want.
I thought I read earlier that SRAM was discontinuing at least some of their IGH offerings. Their future in the market might have me scared of taking the plunge with them if I felt there were other alternatives.
Overall, I'd encourage you to choose a hub based on the features you want.
- Nuvinci: Continuously variable transmission.
- Rholoff: 14 speed
- Alfine: 7, 8, or 11 speed, good price points
Shimano also has a Di2 option with some of their hubs, allowing adaptability to road bikes and other platforms. - SRAM: Dual Drive. I think Sturmey Archer also has a Dual Drive verison available today.
- Sturmey Archer: 3 speed fixed, also some good 3 to 8 speed hubs. Also the Dual Drive option.
I think Sturmey Archer also may have the best support for bar end shifters.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18376 Post(s)
Liked 4,511 Times
in
3,353 Posts
However, I have a SRAM Dual Drive that needs an overhaul, and as far as I can tell, SRAM only sells the complete hub, or the complete internal mechanism (plus the click-box). Individual subcomponents don't seem to be readily available.
Shimano seems to have a pretty complete parts breakdown for their hubs, and hopefully one can still acquire the parts, although there is no guarantee that Shimano will continue to support their current product line fifty years into the future, and finding someone with warehouse stock can even be difficult.
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I have cleaned and oiled a SACHS dual drive hub (predecessor to SRAM?). It seemed to be a pretty straight forward process.
However, I have a SRAM Dual Drive that needs an overhaul, and as far as I can tell, SRAM only sells the complete hub, or the complete internal mechanism (plus the click-box). Individual subcomponents don't seem to be readily available.
Shimano seems to have a pretty complete parts breakdown for their hubs, and hopefully one can still acquire the parts, although there is no guarantee that Shimano will continue to support their current product line fifty years into the future, and finding someone with warehouse stock can even be difficult.
However, I have a SRAM Dual Drive that needs an overhaul, and as far as I can tell, SRAM only sells the complete hub, or the complete internal mechanism (plus the click-box). Individual subcomponents don't seem to be readily available.
Shimano seems to have a pretty complete parts breakdown for their hubs, and hopefully one can still acquire the parts, although there is no guarantee that Shimano will continue to support their current product line fifty years into the future, and finding someone with warehouse stock can even be difficult.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 759
Bikes: 1969 Peugeot PX10, 1992 Della Santa, Linus Roadster 8, Biria 700C ST-8
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked 508 Times
in
322 Posts
I have a Shinamo Nexus 8 speed on my everyday bike. It's model number SG-8R31, that's important since there are a lot of variations check Shimano online docs for details. Into my fourth year now still runs great. The manual says grease and clean every two years and I did that the first time, even ordered the special Shimano grease for it. I will probably regrease this winter not because I am worried about it, but I'm afraid I will lose the little tube. The special grease is for the shift pawls the bearings can take anything. Too thick grease on the pawls and they will stick. Other models use oil lubrication.
But then again my Schwinn Spitfire, circa 1960 has a SA three speed and still runs great. I think I took it apart once in the 70's when I was working at the LBS and had the manual available, like just to see.
I am very happy with the Nexus. Once adjusted no issues. Some people complain that it's hard to take the wheel off but I don't think so. It just runs and runs.
But then again my Schwinn Spitfire, circa 1960 has a SA three speed and still runs great. I think I took it apart once in the 70's when I was working at the LBS and had the manual available, like just to see.
I am very happy with the Nexus. Once adjusted no issues. Some people complain that it's hard to take the wheel off but I don't think so. It just runs and runs.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sin City, Nevada
Posts: 2,886
Bikes: Catrike 700, Greenspeed GTO trike, , Linear LWB recumbent, Haluzak Horizon SWB recumbent, Balance 450 MTB, Cannondale SM800 Beast of the East
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 523 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 229 Times
in
181 Posts
SRAM ends sales of internal gear hubs | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
It is true that SRAM has ended the sale of internal hubs early this year. I guess they could not compete with Shimano or the more expensive hub makers. It is also true that SRAM was one of the worst companies to deal with for repair parts. Their attitude was "too bad, just buy a new one" and that was what eventually soured me on the SRAM dual-drive. Too few places would even attempt to fix them and the one I contacted wanted about the same cost as for a new hub to repair an older dual-drive. You can still find the occasional new-old-stock hub but why bother when you know parts are unavailable.
It is true that SRAM has ended the sale of internal hubs early this year. I guess they could not compete with Shimano or the more expensive hub makers. It is also true that SRAM was one of the worst companies to deal with for repair parts. Their attitude was "too bad, just buy a new one" and that was what eventually soured me on the SRAM dual-drive. Too few places would even attempt to fix them and the one I contacted wanted about the same cost as for a new hub to repair an older dual-drive. You can still find the occasional new-old-stock hub but why bother when you know parts are unavailable.
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 135
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
SRAM ends sales of internal gear hubs | Bicycle Retailer and Industry News
It is true that SRAM has ended the sale of internal hubs early this year. I guess they could not compete with Shimano or the more expensive hub makers. It is also true that SRAM was one of the worst companies to deal with for repair parts. Their attitude was "too bad, just buy a new one" and that was what eventually soured me on the SRAM dual-drive. Too few places would even attempt to fix them and the one I contacted wanted about the same cost as for a new hub to repair an older dual-drive. You can still find the occasional new-old-stock hub but why bother when you know parts are unavailable.
It is true that SRAM has ended the sale of internal hubs early this year. I guess they could not compete with Shimano or the more expensive hub makers. It is also true that SRAM was one of the worst companies to deal with for repair parts. Their attitude was "too bad, just buy a new one" and that was what eventually soured me on the SRAM dual-drive. Too few places would even attempt to fix them and the one I contacted wanted about the same cost as for a new hub to repair an older dual-drive. You can still find the occasional new-old-stock hub but why bother when you know parts are unavailable.
#16
Senior Member
Have used a 3 spd SA for some time, it just keeps going. Often it seems, these hubs have their chainring to rear cog too high. SA suggests a greater than 2:1 ratio, my set up is less than that so I have gear indexes approx 36, 48 and 64.
A few years ago, got a so called red band 8 spd Nexus hub, as I wanted a broader range. It too has been reliable and shifts well in cold weather.
I've ridden bikes with Rohlof and NuVinci hub, slightly different end uses, both were good. For overall effectiveness and reliability, prefer the SA.
A few years ago, got a so called red band 8 spd Nexus hub, as I wanted a broader range. It too has been reliable and shifts well in cold weather.
I've ridden bikes with Rohlof and NuVinci hub, slightly different end uses, both were good. For overall effectiveness and reliability, prefer the SA.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,925
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1819 Post(s)
Liked 1,693 Times
in
974 Posts
Sturmey Archer AW has been in production for 8 decades. I own three of them, each around 50 years old, and I've never seen one that was not either 100% functional, or trivially repairable. Huge numbers were made. The current production AW models are very close to the historical design. Spare parts are readily available, and are interchangeable across the decades. Its gear range is sufficient for a pretty wide range of riding conditions, yet it's simple enough for a layperson to service.
So it's also in a class of its own.
So it's also in a class of its own.
#18
Passista
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,598
Bikes: 1998 Pinarello Asolo, 1992 KHS Montaņa pro, 1980 Raleigh DL-1, IGH Hybrid, IGH Utility
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 866 Post(s)
Liked 721 Times
in
396 Posts
I have a Nexus SG-8R31 too and it works fine after 31000kms. I drilled and tapped the hub for an oil port at 6000kms and been using ATF since. Never had even the slightest problem with it.
#20
Senior Member
Are all of these quiet (assuming properly lubricated)? And how quiet are they compared to conventional chained gearing?
#21
~>~
Since all these IGH hubs freewheel, with the exception of the SA S3X, they are not silent when coasting but my AW w/ a sip of 30W machine oil is as quiet or more so than my Derail freehubs. Since mine is fitted w/ a Cyclo 3-cog Derail conversion it does have the noise of the chain engaging cogs.
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 10-16-17 at 01:26 PM.
#22
Bike Sorceress
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: MPLS
Posts: 761
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Liked 116 Times
in
66 Posts
Based on my experience, my vote goes to Shimano for new hubs, SA for old hubs.
I've had 3 Shimano hubs, a Nexus 3, 7, and 8. The 3-speed was quite simple, has an amazing (And kinda loud) sound when coasting, and never gave me trouble, even in winter. The 7-speed was covered in grime and had an extremely worn cog with over half it's teeth broken when I received it. I cleaned it off externally, put a new cog on, and it worked flawlessly through 2 winters. The 8-speed saw winter use as well, and only had issues with the cable and housing rusting out, an issue that could happen to any shifting system. The 3 and 8 speeds had coaster brakes, which also worked great. I'm building a new winter bike for this year, and I'll be using a Nexus 3 on it.
I've had the Sturmey Archer AW on a few bikes, and overhauled a few as well. It's a relatively simple design, has lots of spare parts, and is quite reliable. I have used one in the winter and it did a fine job, though with an exposed indicator chain I suspect it would be easier for water and grit to enter the hub in really bad conditions. It is impressive how many of them sound perfectly happy when given a bit of oil even when they have spent 50 years sitting around in imperfect conditions.
Sturmey Archer's newest offerings haven't left a great impression on me. So far I've worked on 3 coaster brake models, and all 3 have needed the brake assembly replaced for various reasons. They did seem to shift fine at least. But combined with other anecdotal evidence I've heard, I have no plans to acquire any new rear hubs from them.
I've test ridden a bike with a NuVinci N360. It's a cool idea, but felt like it had more resistance than any other IGH I've tried. I like the dual cable idea, and combined with not having to shift to a specific gear I imagine it would be super reliable in winter as long as the hub is well sealed.
Even with a bike shop discount, I still see a Rohloff as outside my price range. I haven't even seen one in person.
I've had 3 Shimano hubs, a Nexus 3, 7, and 8. The 3-speed was quite simple, has an amazing (And kinda loud) sound when coasting, and never gave me trouble, even in winter. The 7-speed was covered in grime and had an extremely worn cog with over half it's teeth broken when I received it. I cleaned it off externally, put a new cog on, and it worked flawlessly through 2 winters. The 8-speed saw winter use as well, and only had issues with the cable and housing rusting out, an issue that could happen to any shifting system. The 3 and 8 speeds had coaster brakes, which also worked great. I'm building a new winter bike for this year, and I'll be using a Nexus 3 on it.
I've had the Sturmey Archer AW on a few bikes, and overhauled a few as well. It's a relatively simple design, has lots of spare parts, and is quite reliable. I have used one in the winter and it did a fine job, though with an exposed indicator chain I suspect it would be easier for water and grit to enter the hub in really bad conditions. It is impressive how many of them sound perfectly happy when given a bit of oil even when they have spent 50 years sitting around in imperfect conditions.
Sturmey Archer's newest offerings haven't left a great impression on me. So far I've worked on 3 coaster brake models, and all 3 have needed the brake assembly replaced for various reasons. They did seem to shift fine at least. But combined with other anecdotal evidence I've heard, I have no plans to acquire any new rear hubs from them.
I've test ridden a bike with a NuVinci N360. It's a cool idea, but felt like it had more resistance than any other IGH I've tried. I like the dual cable idea, and combined with not having to shift to a specific gear I imagine it would be super reliable in winter as long as the hub is well sealed.
Even with a bike shop discount, I still see a Rohloff as outside my price range. I haven't even seen one in person.
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 759
Bikes: 1969 Peugeot PX10, 1992 Della Santa, Linus Roadster 8, Biria 700C ST-8
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 794 Post(s)
Liked 508 Times
in
322 Posts
Much quieter. Not to change the subject but newish chain mechanisms are very loud. The pawls or whatever in them are clicking very loudly. I could never stand that. I enjoy and demand a quiet ride.
#24
Senior Member
The amount of noise a combination of how they're configured and how they're lubricated. Thicker lube can quiet the mechanism somewhat, reducing the spring tension on the pawls can also do it. You can even reduce the sound by removing pawls from the freehub if you really want to.
But lots of people want a loud freehub. Much in the same way that the hum of high-performance road tires is desirable.