HerrKaLeun

Seems official, Shimano now have 12-speed and a new hub for down to 10T. that new hub also is for their new 11-speed (similar to xD)

This is all I know, please ad information as you learn about it.

Just glad there is some more competition and progress.

Looks like 11-speed will be 10-45T and 12-speed will be offered in 10-45 and 10-51 (yes, 1 tooth more than SRAM)

Edit: If you don't like 1x and prefer a 2x or 3x.... that is all great and there are good reason for 2x or 3x applications. But please don't spam this thread with discussions about if 1x is good to begin with.

Edit: looks like effort is made to hide the new XTR. The MTBR thread about it was deleted. https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...t13557911.html
Apparently whoever Shimano hired to hide this doesn't know how the internet works.
i don't have evidence, but the fact that Shimano makes effort to make that information disappear proves something is to it.

ThermionicScott 

"Progress"? If you say so...

GrainBrain

Don't get the 10, I'd think 11-46 1x12 speed would be perfect. I suppose cyclocross would want it.

HerrKaLeun

418% may be too small of range for a hybrid and other faster bikes. Probably good enough for most MTB and fatbikes. Similar to SRAM's 10-42 (420%), but inherently heavier with everything equal due to larger cogs and chainring.

The 10T allows to increase the range without making the cogs too large and also decreases chainring size at a given speed. 46:11 would be 418%, but 46:10 is 460%. to get 460% they would have to go to 51T with 11t being the smallest.

I like their 10-45 since it would work fine for my hybrid while still keeping steps between gears small. The SRAM 10-50 would be too much range for me at the expense of step size, like wasted range. But nothing stops SRAM or a 3rd party to release a 10-45T cassette for xD.

I wonder if cog spacing is the same as for SRAM so we can interchange RD while keeping the cassette.

I secretly hope that Hyperglide+ is the same as xD so we don't have an additional standard. xD fostered a few new cassettes from various manufacturers so far (e13 etc.) and it will take a while till they make products for " another" standard. and on the long run having tooling for 2 new standards (xD and HG+) is costly (to consumers)

TakingMyTime

I guess I just don't get it.

fietsbob

I certainly Wont get one.. but I'm not the target market..

Sram went that way so Shimano had to get a market slice.

Lazyass

Sometimes I think they have these new "upgrades" designed and planned years in advance. Shimano probably already has a 13 speed ready. I mean if they can design a 12 speed I'm sure they could add one more in. They just want to wait about four years so by then everyone will think a 12 speed is old stuff and will need another cog in the name of "progress". I bet this 12 speed was designed in 2013.

Someone should start a company and come out with a 16 speed cassette just to piss the rest of them off.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it. That means the parts I buy will be cheaper. I stay one step behind the latest and greatest.

MikeyMK

I'd like a 9T cog. My smallest is 11 and even with a 56T on the front it's not enough.

Changing the minority cog makes by far the biggest difference. Going from 11T to 10T is like a tenth, but going from 53T to 54T makes barely any difference. So getting as small on the rear is great.

In turn, it doesn't work with big teeth on the back. Why have 40-50T chainrings on the back? When you can just have one smaller one on the front that covers the lot...?

fietsbob

the Caprio is a hub & cassette made for folding bikes and mini velos, a 9 to 26t.. hub is unique..

Expect this new 12 by 1 stuff is for 29ers, so the wheel diameter is Big... plenty of high gear then..

ColonelSanders

Do you think these new cassettes will be for a 1x setup only?


I'm thinking that a 10-45T 11 speed cassette would nicely match up with a 38-28T double, in addition to working well for a 1x setup.

Marcus_Ti

What I'd like is an 11-32 cassette in 12-speed for my 46/30...spacing is just a bit too wide.

fietsbob

Takes all sorts... Last year, we had a guy really going wide range and low, big 1 by cassette and a triple crank.. ..

toured across the USA.

hillyman

I'd be interested on that on my 9 speed 520. But kind of confused on what derailleur and barend shifter to use to go bigger than my 34 tooth cassette

HerrKaLeun

With up to 510% range on 1x, I assume making it a 2x would be wasteful. But that doesn't mean no one would do it. Also can be combined with an IGH to get even more range
But I doubt the capacity of the RD will be enough. At least judging by how the SRAM 12-speed RD comes to its limits to deal with the chain on largest and smallest cog, I doubt you can have a 41T capacity (51-10) from the rear plus any additional capacity from the FD, unless they use a super long cage. But who knows.. Shimano spent so much advertisement money on bad-mouthing 1x systems, they may just stay with the 2x theme and offer exactly what you propose.

since this is their MTB group, I doubt they make that type of cassette. But it is possible they also release a road group 12-speed. Or a 3rd party manufacturer makes a 12-speed cassette for what you wish. I assume you talk about road bike. SRAM will officially release their 1x12 road set sometime soon, so I heard...

we live in interesting times

SHBR

10 tooth cogs.

Great idea.

Smallest cog I use is a 14, and it doesn't get used that much, too much friction.

tyrion

https://www.bikemag.com/gear/compone...-46t-cassette/

unterhausen

def waiting for 13 speeds

Darth Lefty 

Shimano is really behind with this stuff.

SHBR

$350 for a cassette?

I can buy a lifetime supply of 7 speed cassettes for that price.

veganbikes

Campy is coming out with a wide range cassette for these new uno by-o bici's.

We here at Campagnolo have looked at the market for a long time and realize that people are removing the gears from the front and going with a nice wide cassette at the back we wanted to make the absolute best as we always do so we introduce the Super Record 12-33 cassette with our new Super Record 57 tooth chainring compatible with our new Super Record 2 bolt TorqueTorque cranks for the best wide range experience. Some people have said our 11-25 cassettes were pretty wide but we knew we needed to go wider to fit the demands of new cyclists who seem to think going off road is a thing. We have also made our new Ghiblits off road disc wheels made by hand by our master craftsmen, we knew disc wheels were the thing for off road so you don't get mud caught in your spokes. Remember when the moon hits your eye's like a big pizza pie that's Campy!



Relax all Campagnolo owner's I have no ill will towards Campy, I was having a laugh and you should too!

TimothyH

Did anyone notice that this link goes to epson.com and asks for a username and password?

I can't find information, official or not, about 12 speed availability, nor can I find any official announcement. It would be all over the place if it were official.

@HerrKaLeun, do you have an actual working link or can you provide some official statement from Shimano?


-Tim-

ColonelSanders

I have on my Merida Big Nine, a crankset with 34-24 chainrings and an 11-42 cassette.


Obviously I am well covered for the low end, but would like more top end, which the 10-45 would help with, in addition to changing to 38-28 chainrings(which I will do when my current ones need replacing).


The 10-51 cassette would obviously appeal to those on a 1x setup, as you could easily go with a 42t chainring or greater, which would be perfect for many hybrids.

TimothyH

I don't believe this is real.

HerrKaLeun

Looks like effort is made to hide the new XTR. The MTBR thread about it was deleted. https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-sh...t13557911.html
Apparently whoever Shimano hired to hide this doesn't know how the internet works :-)
i don't have evidence, but the fact that Shimano makes effort to make that information disappear proves something is to it.
Here is what Google cache gave me from the link when it still worked:

I know that doesn't prove anything... but if it was just a rumor, why is shimano pulling strings to remove threads? Rumors on 1x12 are abundant, no need to remove them. And shimano countering SRAM is inevitable and making a 1x12 isn't like they have to possess black magic for. My GUESS is they want to wait till Sea Otter in April and this was just an accidental or wanted leak they now closed.

MikeyMK

They look good, but i have a spin-on hub...