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Originally Posted by trailangel
(Post 20684689)
GP is way behind the times, and has actually missed the boat , so to speak.
He is in California, and California has already classified ebikes as bicycles. Specifically, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can go anywhere push bikes can go. Read it and weep. https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-conten...02132018v2.pdf That's simply not true. Class 1 and 2 ebikes are banned on many trails in California, including many trails right around GP's home base. All of those same trails are legal on real bikes. So no, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can't go anywhere push bikes can go. |
Goes pretty fast, looks fun. I'd like to try one. I like and own sport bikes, too. If I was worth millions I might buy one on a whim. But it's a 41 pound motorized vehicle with cranks and pedals like old Harley's, not a bicycle. I'm waiting for the day when I start seeing people go on 100K and 100 mile charity rides with them, and finishing way before everyone else of course. That won't be cool.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...g?v=1510258508 |
41 lbs is a bit of a joke. Try 11.3 kg (24.9 lbs) or 11.9 kg (26.2 lbs). Neither e-bike has a throttle. The Orbea only offers assist up to 15 mph, suggesting the motor is only there to assist with climbing. Get out on the flats, you are on your own. :-)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c6e6fa7b1f.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ad1bdd3560.jpg |
Originally Posted by Lazyass
(Post 20685353)
Goes pretty fast, looks fun. I'd like to try one. I like and own sport bikes, too. If I was worth millions I might buy one on a whim. But it's a 41 pound motorized vehicle with cranks and pedals like old Harley's, not a bicycle. I'm waiting for the day when I start seeing people go on 100K and 100 mile charity rides with them, and finishing way before everyone else of course. That won't be cool.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...g?v=1510258508 Between the pedals, the motor, and the racer-wannabe geo, this would be GF's personal hell. The kickstand is pure class. |
Originally Posted by radroad
(Post 20685377)
The Orbea only offers assist up to 15 mph, suggesting the motor is only there to assist with climbing.
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This thread will be hilarious in 5-10 years when everyone posting here has a stable of e-bikes. :-)
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Originally Posted by ogmtb
(Post 20685336)
Nope.
That's simply not true. Class 1 and 2 ebikes are banned on many trails in California, including many trails right around GP's home base. All of those same trails are legal on real bikes. So no, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can't go anywhere push bikes can go. |
Originally Posted by radroad
(Post 20685385)
This thread will be hilarious in 5-10 years when everyone posting here has a stable of e-bikes. :-)
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Originally Posted by trailangel
(Post 20685386)
If it's a fire road where motor vehicles are driven, Class 1 ebike is allow.
adverb any·where | \-ˌ(h)wer, -(h)wər\Definition of anywhere (Entry 1 of 2) 1: at, in, or to any place or point (Entry 2 of 2) : any place _____________ Additionally, there are many fire roads in California where motor vehicles are driven, but ebikes are banned. For example, motor vehicles are driven on fire roads in the East Bay Regional Parks District, bicycles are legal on those fire roads, and ebikes are banned. |
Originally Posted by trailangel
(Post 20684689)
GP is way behind the times, and has actually missed the boat , so to speak.
He is in California, and California has already classified ebikes as bicycles. Specifically, bicycles with a 20 mph limit are class 1 and 2 ebikes and can go anywhere push bikes can go. Read it and weep. https://peopleforbikes.org/wp-conten...02132018v2.pdf CA is the test case. lots of loopholes and local rules, as subject to local enforcement. |
Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 20685112)
There are 2 types of people: binary and non-binary.
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Originally Posted by radroad
(Post 20683992)
Actually, it's the other way around. You will burn at least twice as many calories on a non motorized bicycle. This means you will have to:
a. eat a lot more food and drink a lot more water. This means that a lot more trucks, ships and planes have to transport a lot more food and water since you are burning far more calories b. burn more coal for your electricity since you will need to wash twice as many clothes or wash the same clothes twice as often. In actuality then, ebikes save electricity by reducing food production and transport and save on pollution from washing and drying machines. |
Originally Posted by 5teve
(Post 20685171)
God I'm sick of hearing about E-bikes! If you want one or need one, for heaven's sake just buy it and ride it where it's allowed. QUIT trying to convince us that it's just like a bicycle. Bicycles are human powered--IT'S IN THEIR VERY DEFINITION! Quit insulting us because we don't accept that they are bicycles, quit assuming we're elitists or have an agenda (lol-like ebike advocates don't have one?) or that we're purists or whatever. They're one thing, bicycles are another thing. FACT!
I've been a fan of Grant's for over 20 years. I've been a fan of ebikes never. I don't give a crap about ebikes, and I'm so sick of hearing about them! https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a7079eda63.png |
Originally Posted by Lazyass
(Post 20685353)
Goes pretty fast, looks fun. I'd like to try one. I like and own sport bikes, too. If I was worth millions I might buy one on a whim. But it's a 41 pound motorized vehicle with cranks and pedals like old Harley's, not a bicycle. I'm waiting for the day when I start seeing people go on 100K and 100 mile charity rides with them, and finishing way before everyone else of course. That won't be cool.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/06...g?v=1510258508 (so do I) |
I must admit I’m not convinced by e-bikes, although if it reduces car traffic in cities it’s hard to pick a fault with them, and most councils in France do give you a rebate as incentive, particularly for older people, for just that reason. Despite my previous comments, they certainly have a positive impact on air quality in urban areas. |
Originally Posted by avole
(Post 20685937)
I must admit I’m not convinced by e-bikes, although if it reduces car traffic in cities it’s hard to pick a fault with them, and most councils in France do give you a rebate as incentive, particularly for older people, for just that reason. Despite my previous comments, they certainly have a positive impact on air quality in urban areas. |
Power plants are nasty, but probably less pollution per kwh than IC autos.
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Originally Posted by Kapusta
(Post 20684761)
I’ve got nothing against eBikes (except on non-motorized trails). I am building two for me and my wife. But we are not deluding ourselves that these are bicycles, or that we are “cycling” when we ride them. They are electric mopeds. And I am fine with that. And as far as I can tell, GP is OK with people riding mopeds, he just wants them (and the industry) to be honest about what they are doing. |
I was in Traverse City, MI over the summer with my wife, and we rented a pair of Raleigh Detours for the day to try out ebikes. I'm sure different ebikes must have different pedal assist profiles or whatever, but this bike had 4 or 5 pedal assist settings and that was basically how fast you could go. On the highest setting I could go about 18 mph if I just lightly turned the pedals with very little effort or around 19 if I pedaled as hard as I could. Same thing just a little slower at all the other settings. Seemed a lot more like a moped than a bike to me, except way crappier than both. If I wanted to commute to work on a moped, I would buy a vespa, and commuting is really the only relevant use-case I can think of for a pedal assist ebike for able-bodied people. Originally we thought that maybe we could get my wife an ebike so she could go cycling with me, but at least with this ebike, she wouldn't be able to keep up and would run out of power in about 25 miles, so pretty useless for that application. More speed, bigger battery, etc. gets us even more into moped-land which isn't really the point.
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Originally Posted by radroad
(Post 20683742)
Even when I disagree with Grant Petersen (and I tend to agree with him more often than not), his opinions are typically interesting, well thought through, and often amusing. His opinions are often well-informed also, which is why his recent anti e-bike rant is so disappointing and confusing. He clearly has not ridden an e-bike and seems bent on never doing so. Moreover, he's clearly strongly inclined to discourage others from riding e-bikes, or at least on changing existing legislation so that e-bikes would be re-classified as mopeds or motorcycles.
The blog piece is littered with endless contradictions, half truths, obscurantism and uninformed opinion passed off as fact. Be forewarned; this is Grant Petersen at near rock bottom. I'm going to give him a pass on this one. I tend to believe he was drunk or otherwise compromised when he wrote this piece. Sad that he didn't actually edit, re-write or simply delete this awful piece once he came to: https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peekin...-knothole/reno TL, DR: 1. GP says he attended Interbike in order to open new accounts, but money isn't really important to him. 2. The declining popularity of Interbike means the industry is in peril ("oh no, support your local ripoff I mean bike shop!") 3. The Big Three (T, S, G) are baddies for not attending Interbike, but no big deal, Interbike was awesome anyway, except when it wasn't snip If you have an actual disagreement with something from the blog post, why don't you just make your point, rather than attack someone's character? You're 3d point, for example, inaccurately depicts what GP wrote about the big 3 and them not attending inter-bike. Let me quote what GP wrote about the big 3 not attending inter-bike: "The big bike industry trade show is called Interbike. It ended Friday, and this year it was about 25 percent as big as it has been in any of the past 35 years. Specialized, Giant, and Trek have their own shows, with captive audiences, and they save money by not renting space at Interbike, and they can give their dealers a more royal treatment. It makes sense." |
Originally Posted by kingston
(Post 20685987)
On the highest setting I could go about 18 mph if I just lightly turned the pedals with very little effort oraround 19if I pedaled as hard as I could.Same thing just a little slower at all the other settings.
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Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 20685959)
I think you might have a different perspective once you’ve ridden one.
Originally Posted by gregf83
(Post 20685959)
Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...
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Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 20685992)
I can go faster than that if I pedal as hard as I can. :lol:
Originally Posted by Reynolds
(Post 20685992)
So I don't need an e-bike like that,
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****
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I can understand why people want e-bikes classed as bicycles in terms of where it is permissible to ride them. I have no problem with that. Calling them bicycles in that context makes sense.
Arguing that they're just exactly the same as a bicycle because adding a motor is no different than adding gears seems to me to be a silly conceit. |
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