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Health hazards of chain lube

Old 06-10-19, 06:33 PM
  #201  
livedarklions
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Originally Posted by no motor? View Post
That's the core of detoxification as it's commonly used it health care, it seems like this is another concept you aren't grasping. If you're thinking of the process of withdrawal from drug and alcohol addiction I could see why you would be confused, but your earlier comments seemed to ramble off in the more commonly used definition. https://player.vimeo.com/video/200059607 here's a video that explains how that works if you want to know what you're talking about.

I figured you'd have a hard time with the rest of my points too, no need to worry about digging that hole you're in any deeper.
Oh, I just checked, and Metagenics is owned by the same company as Amway. What was it you were saying about mlm scams?
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Old 06-10-19, 06:34 PM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post
So the CIA is now in the chain lube business?
Mkultra sounds like a brand name, doesn't it?
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Old 06-10-19, 06:37 PM
  #203  
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I'm really surprised that no one has mentioned the most common side effect of exposure to chain lube!! Ever since I was first exposed, I have had the irresistible compulsion to ride my bicycle! It keeps getting stronger and stronger! With any luck at all, there may be no cure.

Of course, my experience is purely anecdotal, like 84.726 percent of posts in "... I heard whatzamacallits are bad for your health, is that true?" threads... YMMV.

Last edited by Rje58; 06-10-19 at 06:48 PM.
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Old 06-10-19, 07:06 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
A little perspective - I used to build fiberglass sailboats. I was a very good laminator. Built a couple of boats for a world champion. (Both winners.) And I paid for it. After 5 years I had fiberglass itch all the time all week, not from the dust particles but from sensitivity to acetone. I'd wake up Monday morning feeling itch free for the first time since that hour the week before. Walk into work and the acetone in the air set off that itch for the next week. Made year six my last in the business. For the next 30 years I had sensitivities to cigarettes, diesel fumes, animals, many perfumes and scents, wool, some people and most people when they were excited or upset. (Pheromones?) I was the guy who could tell you there was an open container of solvent long before anyone, including me, could smell it. (At work, I became known as the canary. But they didn't laugh because I always found the source. (It was that or go home. I couldn't work.)

This thread is about chain lube. 6 ounce containers. I was working with 2 others and we were going through 55 gallon drums of acetone every couple on months. I spent a year working barehanded. Even with gloves, the forced handwash in not-so-clean tool acetone happened a lot. (Put a small hole in a glove while doing a large layup and you have to rip it off when you start to feel the catalyst burn, rush to the acetone, clean up, and get back to work fast (probably bare handed. No time to get a new glove that you will have to fight to get on. Catalyzed fiberglass resin doesn't wait and the faster you work, the higher the quality of the final job. (I did say I was good.)

Reasonable care with little tubes of chain lube and not a lot of other toxic stuff in your life - probably never an issue. Big time exposure to acetone or worse - a lot us had real, life changing consequences. I got lucky. Year 33 after I quit boatbuilding, I went for a physical with my GP, a nurse with a lot of initials after her name. She also had experience with alternative medicines. At the end of the session she said she noticed I had mentioned the common knowledge around fiberglass boatbuilders that acetone carried the fiberglass resin through the skin to the liver; that I was seeing what I had heard others going through when I was still building. She asked me if I was willing to go through a liver cleansing that would basically be a mini-chemothereapy. I said yes. It was just that. The middle month and a half of the 90 day program was not fun. But it was life-changing. Those "allergies" (some of which cannot be allergies like the ones to people) are near gone. I can wear the Pendleton shirts my dad gave me decades ago. I can go to bed without a shower and actually sleep instead of putting myself through hell for the next 24 hours.

More perspective - my journey was with just acetone, that inocent stuff women have been using with nail polish forever. I made a point while I was building todo almost no work with MEK and the other powerful solvents, toluene and the like, IMRON paint and its solvents and epoxy. I helped build one epoxy boat. Two days work. As both an engineer and sailor I love the stuff and have used it a lot at home to make furniture, to repair anything, etc. but I knew that building boats with it would be a huge overload with really bad stuff. And that acetone - I go to Supercuts to get haircuts. The last two women who have cut my hair used to make more money working in salons but no longer can because like me, they became sensitized.

Ben
+10. Damn straight. I worked as an engineer where prototype techs used brake cleaner constantly to clean things with no gloves, one of then developed severe sensitivity and was transferred to other work. In my younger days I was exposed to solvents ungloved. I wish I knew better at the time. Solvents can be dangerous, other chemicals, and metal additives, that is why even simple motor oil is treated as hazardous for skin contact. Copied from Aaron's bike repair with regard to Simple Green, which I thought was safe:

We no longer use Simple Green in our shop because it contains A TOXIC SUBSTANCE!
One of the ingredients in Simple Green is butoxy ethanol, also known as butyl cellosolve or ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, a toxic aqueous solvent. Butoxy ethanol, due to its oral and skin toxicity, is considered a hazardous waste at concentrations above one percent in water. It is rarely diluted below this concentration when used.
Butoxy ethanol is readily absorbed through exposed skin. The OSHA permissible exposure limit is 25 parts per million (ppm). It is important that users wear personal protective equipment (e.g., gloves, goggles, rubber boots) to prevent exposure.
Residents using this product would not be required to get permission from the local sewer utility to dispose of, however it is best to use up or take to a household hazardous waste facility (facility listing).
The recommendation is that this cleaner be replaced by one that poses fewer risks to you. Less toxic, substitute cleaners are typically available from manufacturers that produce butoxy ethanol. Look for the words Non-butyl or Butyl-free on the label.
Substitute cleaners often contain sodium metasilicate as a primary constituent, which is much less toxic and is not readily absorbed through the skin.
A big thanks to Laurel Tomchick of Envirostars for this information.
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Old 06-10-19, 10:30 PM
  #205  
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I agree

Originally Posted by General Geoff View Post
It ain't the acetone that's the problem, acetone is one of the safest solvents around. It is produced in small quantities by the human body and is used in various metabolic functions, and has been studied extensively for neurotoxicity, with none being found. As you mentioned though, other nasty compounds which have been dissolved into the acetone are readily absorbed by the body through the skin.
Gotta be careful with what you're working with, especially if you do it for hours every day.
I did a presentation for an industry group on health hazards. The research I saw for most of the solvents (acetone, alcohol, MEK, xylene, methyline chloride) are all toxic in large amounts or with regular exposure but relatively safe at the usual small doses a normal consumer experiences. Acetone and ethanol are regularly used by the body and have little toxicity aside from large overdoses. A xylene scare a few years ago was found to be caused by contaminants, not the xylene.

Living in California virtually everything comes with a toxic warning label, meaning please don't eat your bike or car. Starbucks has a warning label at the condiments counter warning that coffee and baked bread contain chemicals known by the state of California to cause cancer or reproductive harm.

One of the deadliest chemicals, one which kills more people than any other is dihydrogen oxide.
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Old 06-10-19, 10:32 PM
  #206  
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Beeswax?

This begs the question: Would just rubbing bees wax onto my chain work as well?
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Old 06-11-19, 08:43 AM
  #207  
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Rubber Gloves
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Old 06-11-19, 08:53 AM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by oldbear63 View Post
This begs the question: Would just rubbing bees wax onto my chain work as well?
not really. the crock pot method is great and there is nothing great you can apply in between that is not a pure wax solution. I have tried a few things and it just best to use its life, remove and fire up the crockpot. But that is just what I think.
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Old 06-11-19, 09:30 AM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I didn't have problems following your points, I just pointed out the medline sources had absolutely nothing to do with them. Funny how you couldn't refute that. Now you post a link to a sales pitch for something called Metagenics as proof of some people's ability to sling scientific -sounding gobbledygook.

i just hope that whatever crap you're selling is harmless, but I really doubt it somehow.
Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
Oh, I just checked, and Metagenics is owned by the same company as Amway. What was it you were saying about mlm scams?
What were you saying about a quick Google search being a poor substitute for knowledge? Yes, the company that owns a majority of the Metagenics also owns Amway, but Metagenics is not multi level marketing.

One of the reasons my malpractice insurance is much lower than for allopaths is they practice a much more dangerous and risky style of care than I do. If you're really worried about patients being harmed by using Metagenics products, you ought to be more worried about the ones at the Cleveland Clinic. They use a lot of them, and not just their detox products. Make sure you impress them with your quick Google searching skills and warn them they're using multi-level marketing crap.
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Old 06-11-19, 10:52 AM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by no motor? View Post
What were you saying about a quick Google search being a poor substitute for knowledge? Yes, the company that owns a majority of the Metagenics also owns Amway, but Metagenics is not multi level marketing.

One of the reasons my malpractice insurance is much lower than for allopaths is they practice a much more dangerous and risky style of care than I do. If you're really worried about patients being harmed by using Metagenics products, you ought to be more worried about the ones at the Cleveland Clinic. They use a lot of them, and not just their detox products. Make sure you impress them with your quick Google searching skills and warn them they're using multi-level marketing crap.
Duck says quack.
You posted a sales pitch as proof what you do is "scientific".
Got you.
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Old 06-11-19, 05:38 PM
  #211  
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Originally Posted by Jon T View Post
I usta' use MEK to clean gun stocks until Commiefornia out-lawed it 10 or so years ago. I ain't dain brammaged yet.
Jon
We'll be the judge of that.😉
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Old 06-11-19, 09:03 PM
  #212  
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Originally Posted by oldbear63 View Post
I did a presentation for an industry group on health hazards. The research I saw for most of the solvents (acetone, alcohol, MEK, xylene, methyline chloride) are all toxic in large amounts or with regular exposure but relatively safe at the usual small doses a normal consumer experiences. Acetone and ethanol are regularly used by the body and have little toxicity aside from large overdoses. A xylene scare a few years ago was found to be caused by contaminants, not the xylene.

Living in California virtually everything comes with a toxic warning label, meaning please don't eat your bike or car. Starbucks has a warning label at the condiments counter warning that coffee and baked bread contain chemicals known by the state of California to cause cancer or reproductive harm.

One of the deadliest chemicals, one which kills more people than any other is dihydrogen oxide.
Just because a chemical is toxic, flammable, explosive or mutagenic does not mean the chemical cannot be handle. The chemical must be handled properly by using the PROPER protective equipment and procedure. People that do not wear protective equipment (e.g. no gloves, no goggles) do not respect the chemical they are handling.
Dynamite is an example of an extremely explosive product yet it is produce everyday for a purpose.
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Old 06-12-19, 07:54 AM
  #213  
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Did you know coke, the one you drink is considered a hazardous material in bulk....seriously!

Everyone still drinks it though.....
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Old 06-13-19, 06:16 AM
  #214  
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Originally Posted by Duragrouch View Post
Copied from Aaron's bike repair with regard to Simple Green, which I thought was safe:
We no longer use Simple Green in our shop because it contains A TOXIC SUBSTANCE!
One of the ingredients in Simple Green is butoxy ethanol, also known as butyl cellosolve or ethylene glycol monobutyl ether, a toxic aqueous solvent. Butoxy ethanol, due to its oral and skin toxicity, is considered a hazardous waste at concentrations above one percent in water. It is rarely diluted below this concentration when used.
Butoxy ethanol is readily absorbed through exposed skin. The OSHA permissible exposure limit is 25 parts per million (ppm). It is important that users wear personal protective equipment (e.g., gloves, goggles, rubber boots) to prevent exposure.
Residents using this product would not be required to get permission from the local sewer utility to dispose of, however it is best to use up or take to a household hazardous waste facility (facility listing).
The recommendation is that this cleaner be replaced by one that poses fewer risks to you. Less toxic, substitute cleaners are typically available from manufacturers that produce butoxy ethanol. Look for the words Non-butyl or Butyl-free on the label.
Substitute cleaners often contain sodium metasilicate as a primary constituent, which is much less toxic and is not readily absorbed through the skin.
A big thanks to Laurel Tomchick of Envirostars for this information.
I wonder where Aaron (or Laural Tomchick) got this information. First, Simple Green does not contain 2-butoxyethanol (2-BE) according to their SDS. Second, 2-BE, although it can be absorbed through the skin, is of low toxicity to humans. Third, 2-BE is not regulated by the EPA as a hazardous waste. Fourth, sodium metasilicate, being a caustic chemical, is not very friendly to your skin. Most cleaners labeled as butyl-free will be highly alkaline so be careful when you use them. Also, they they may damage aluminum components.

I browsed Aaron's site and applaud their energy towards an environmentally conscious life, though I was not able to find the particular statement that you attributed to them. Still, this is one more example of how misinformation is plaguing our modern world.

Here's a link to the Simple Green Safety Data Sheet

As a side note: Aaron's site has a picture of Thomas Stevens on their index page but don't identify this fascinating man who did an around the world trip in the late 1800s on his Columbia ordinary.
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Old 06-13-19, 07:07 AM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by Moe Zhoost View Post
I wonder where Aaron (or Laural Tomchick) got this information. First, Simple Green does not contain 2-butoxyethanol (2-BE) according to their SDS. Second, 2-BE, although it can be absorbed through the skin, is of low toxicity to humans. Third, 2-BE is not regulated by the EPA as a hazardous waste. Fourth, sodium metasilicate, being a caustic chemical, is not very friendly to your skin. Most cleaners labeled as butyl-free will be highly alkaline so be careful when you use them. Also, they they may damage aluminum components.

I browsed Aaron's site and applaud their energy towards an environmentally conscious life, though I was not able to find the particular statement that you attributed to them. Still, this is one more example of how misinformation is plaguing our modern world.

Here's a link to the Simple Green Safety Data Sheet

As a side note: Aaron's site has a picture of Thomas Stevens on their index page but don't identify this fascinating man who did an around the world trip in the late 1800s on his Columbia ordinary.
Excellent information! Here's the source of Aaron's statement: Refills
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Old 06-13-19, 08:19 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
Did you know coke, the one you drink is considered a hazardous material in bulk....seriously!

Everyone still drinks it though.....
Water is dangerous "in bulk" too, zillions of people are exposed to the deadly hazard of water "in bulk" when they find themselves drinking and breathing it for a few minutes.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:32 AM
  #217  
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike View Post
Water is dangerous "in bulk" too, zillions of people are exposed to the deadly hazard of water "in bulk" when they find themselves drinking and breathing it for a few minutes.
LMAO

When the AMA supercross comes to town they use coke syrup on the dirt on indoor arenas to make it tacky/sticky. they haul it in bulk tankers and all have corrosive placards on them. 1907 if I remember correctly. The tanker driver says its a super corrosive (we already knew that) and its also flammable lol.
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Old 06-13-19, 08:35 AM
  #218  
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You don't even need to breath water to harm yourself. Just drink to much of it in the right situation and you can cause Hyponatremia. That can lead to things like seizures and even death. Buddy of mine was working a tri and had to assist a participant who had a seizure. Apparently happens more less experienced endurance athletes.

Stay thirsty, mis amigos.
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Old 06-13-19, 09:17 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
Did you know coke, the one you drink is considered a hazardous material in bulk....seriously!

Everyone still drinks it though.....
That would be incorrect.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coca-cola-acids/

The MSDS for Coke can be found here:

http://firebears.org/wp-content/uplo.../02/256481.pdf

In short, it's not a hazardous material.


-Matt
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Old 06-13-19, 10:04 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
That would be incorrect.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/coca-cola-acids/

The MSDS for Coke can be found here:

http://firebears.org/wp-content/uplo.../02/256481.pdf

In short, it's not a hazardous material.


-Matt
I don't know I am not an expert just what I was told buy a guy (LOL). the pdf you show is for coke zero I wonder if that would actually matter???

This is getting off topic now but I now hav something to look for at work today.
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Old 06-13-19, 11:07 AM
  #221  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
LMAO

When the AMA supercross comes to town they use coke syrup on the dirt on indoor arenas to make it tacky/sticky. they haul it in bulk tankers and all have corrosive placards on them. 1907 if I remember correctly. The tanker driver says its a super corrosive (we already knew that) and its also flammable lol.
Coke is inferior. Grape soda is where it's at, more sugar. We used generic grape soda as traction compound in R/C racing on both dirt and asphalt for many, many years.

The statements about the acidic content of Coke has been vastly overstated for decades. Orange juice is more corrosive.
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Old 06-13-19, 11:47 AM
  #222  
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Originally Posted by sdmc530 View Post
LMAO

When the AMA supercross comes to town they use coke syrup on the dirt on indoor arenas to make it tacky/sticky. they haul it in bulk tankers and all have corrosive placards on them. 1907 if I remember correctly. The tanker driver says its a super corrosive (we already knew that) and its also flammable lol.
Come on, really?

Why would the AMA add Coke to make indoor tracks stickier? They also run outdoor events, but without truckloads of Coke. You see no traction differences on a dry indoor track versus a dry outdoor track. None.

Bone *stock* 450cc dirt bikes are putting out 55 HP at the rear wheel, connected to the dirt by about a dozen rubber knobbies on the rear tire. SuperGlue wouldn't add traction under that kind of load!

And if it were super corrosive, why don't the tankers corrode? And *flammable?* Where are you coming up with this stuff?

-Matt
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Old 06-13-19, 11:48 AM
  #223  
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To keep my previous comment bicycle related, don't use Coke to lube your chain. Not because it's corrosive or flammable, but because it would make a lousy chain lube.

-Matt
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Old 06-13-19, 12:10 PM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by MattTheHat View Post
Come on, really?

Why would the AMA add Coke to make indoor tracks stickier? They also run outdoor events, but without truckloads of Coke. You see no traction differences on a dry indoor track versus a dry outdoor track. None.

Bone *stock* 450cc dirt bikes are putting out 55 HP at the rear wheel, connected to the dirt by about a dozen rubber knobbies on the rear tire. SuperGlue wouldn't add traction under that kind of load!

And if it were super corrosive, why don't the tankers corrode? And *flammable?* Where are you coming up with this stuff?

-Matt
This I can attest too, I saw this in person. They would seriously hose down the track with sprayers with the syrup. Was kind of crazy, smelled great, was super tacky, and held the dirt together. They had 4 wheelers with sprayers like a farmer would use and wet the track. Maybe it was a dust control issue? Damned if I know. This was 17 years ago so things might have changed? I don't really know.

As far as corrosive chems? they ship all sorts of crazy corrosive stuff in tankers so I am sure they line them with something. They ship sulfuric acid don't they.
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Old 06-13-19, 12:22 PM
  #225  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
You don't even need to breath water to harm yourself. Just drink to much of it in the right situation and you can cause Hyponatremia. That can lead to things like seizures and even death. Buddy of mine was working a tri and had to assist a participant who had a seizure. Apparently happens more less experienced endurance athletes.

Stay thirsty, mis amigos.
Sorry to get serious at the expense of the joke, but the problem isn't drinking when you're thirsty. You should pretty much always do that. People get hyponatremia because they're told to drink large amounts when they work out even when they aren't thirsty.
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