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E/bicycle or not?

Old 02-08-20, 09:47 PM
  #51  
Flip Flop Rider
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saw a guy riding up a slight hill that I ride a lot not pedaling at all and hauling ass. It definitely was a bicycle, not a moped. This is an e-bike no?
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Old 02-08-20, 09:53 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
No I am talking about a pedal assisted bicycle.
Again, literally, a motorized cycle, ie, a motorcycle. And you described taking a particularly motor sports joy in its operation, rather than a simple utility usage.

Not a motorcycle which uses a throttle.
Those exist, too, but they aren't the only sort. They do seem to grossly outnumber the type you prefer, with the result that all types are getting lumped together in regulation - regulation typical of that traditionally applied to mopeds, rather than bicycles (eg, can't be operated on roads where the speed limit exceeds a certain amount). When that restrictions is imposed only on so-called motorized bicycles and not on human powered ones, it becomes clear that the people who want to go fast on their unregistered motorcycles have ruined the idea of a utility motor assist with a cutout in the the low teens of MPH (which is faster than most non-cyclists pedal for very long, and the sort of speed bike routes are designed for) for everyone else.

Where that doesn't fit the need, roadworthy electric motorycycles capable of being registered, insured, and operated by a licensed driver exist: if you want a motor vehicle performance, we impose requirements on that and don't allow it on bike paths.

Last edited by UniChris; 02-09-20 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 02-09-20, 12:51 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post

Yes safety is important but e-bikes are not exceptionally dangerous they are bikes and if you feel bikes are dangerous, maybe a bicycle forum isn't quite for you. The padded room forum probably is taking new members? Anything you do is dangerous in some way or another but if you use your brain those activities aren't so dangerous. As a human you should be spatially aware and that doesn't mean constantly in fear but just know what is going on around you and react as needed.
I expected better than this condescending crap from you. I'd put my riding cred up against yours any day. I do see I typoed and wrote "now" for "not", so I'm hoping this rare obnoxious behavior on your part is just the result of a misunderstanding.

Power isn't just a matter of speed, there's also weight. There are pedal assist cargo ebikes with advertised capacity to operate at around 20 mph with a gross vehicle weight of over 600 pounds (vehicle, rider, and cargo). I have seen two of these operating at speeds in excess of 20 mph on a crowded Minuteman Bikeway. If you actually do the math on the kinetic energy between a 250-300 pound vehicle traveling at that speed vs. a 600 pound one, you will very quickly see you are far more likely to be seriously injured or killed by a collision with a 600 pound vehicle. Now, on a street, those would still be some of the lightest vehicles out there, and even in a bike lane, the relative speeds and predictable traffic flow probably negates most of the hazard, but you start mixing vehicles like that with pedestrians on MUPs or sidewalks (in places where sidewalk riding is legal), and the safety calculations are quite different.
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Old 02-09-20, 12:07 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I expected better than this condescending crap from you. I'd put my riding cred up against yours any day. I do see I typoed and wrote "now" for "not", so I'm hoping this rare obnoxious behavior on your part is just the result of a misunderstanding.

Power isn't just a matter of speed, there's also weight. There are pedal assist cargo ebikes with advertised capacity to operate at around 20 mph with a gross vehicle weight of over 600 pounds (vehicle, rider, and cargo). I have seen two of these operating at speeds in excess of 20 mph on a crowded Minuteman Bikeway. If you actually do the math on the kinetic energy between a 250-300 pound vehicle traveling at that speed vs. a 600 pound one, you will very quickly see you are far more likely to be seriously injured or killed by a collision with a 600 pound vehicle. Now, on a street, those would still be some of the lightest vehicles out there, and even in a bike lane, the relative speeds and predictable traffic flow probably negates most of the hazard, but you start mixing vehicles like that with pedestrians on MUPs or sidewalks (in places where sidewalk riding is legal), and the safety calculations are quite different.
Sorry, I am terrible at B.S.ing people. As I stated the people riding are the issue not the vehicle. If you are going fast on a bike trail that is not a good thing but that is not the bikes fault it is the flesh bag on top. Yes if you collide with a cargo bike there is a better chance of injury for all but again spatial awareness will help. Also that cargo bike could be non electric and then where does that leave your argument about the attack of the killer e-bikes? A bike at a high speed amongst cyclists at non-high speeds can be more dangerous electric or not. What if I collide with a tri-bike and the extensions poke my eyes out and crack and I have carbon fibers stuck in my eye sockets or someone has a sweet new gravel bike and their spinning disc rotors that slice off my leg? My point stands, bikes can be dangerous but so can just about anything and we can come up with different scenarios where something bad can happen and that can control us.

Just like on a highway with a 18 wheeler you need to be aware. You cannot tell everyone in cars/trucks they must drive a Smart for two and have a limiter so people cannot go fast enough to cause serious injury.
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Old 02-09-20, 12:20 PM
  #55  
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I would like to know the difference between someone who uses an eMTB to get the access trail for laps compared to those who throw their bikes in the back of a pickup ruck to be driven up? Or take the lift/gondola up major parks. Are the ebikers lazy?
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Old 02-09-20, 05:15 PM
  #56  
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My neighbor just got 2 and brought them out for the first ride about an hour ago. After their ride his wife offered to let me ride hers. I have been curious and so was eager to give it a try. Great fun, just like a moped I used for commuting about 40 years ago, which I could also pedal along with the motor. Just went purr instead of putt putt. No complaint or criticism of them but not my cup of tea. Fun, but an entirely different kind of fun than cycling (in my short experience) and not the kind of fun I like as much as cycling. Happy for those who enjoy them but not planning on buying one myself.
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Old 02-10-20, 05:23 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Sorry, I am terrible at B.S.ing people. As I stated the people riding are the issue not the vehicle. If you are going fast on a bike trail that is not a good thing but that is not the bikes fault it is the flesh bag on top. Yes if you collide with a cargo bike there is a better chance of injury for all but again spatial awareness will help. Also that cargo bike could be non electric and then where does that leave your argument about the attack of the killer e-bikes? A bike at a high speed amongst cyclists at non-high speeds can be more dangerous electric or not. What if I collide with a tri-bike and the extensions poke my eyes out and crack and I have carbon fibers stuck in my eye sockets or someone has a sweet new gravel bike and their spinning disc rotors that slice off my leg? My point stands, bikes can be dangerous but so can just about anything and we can come up with different scenarios where something bad can happen and that can control us.

Just like on a highway with a 18 wheeler you need to be aware. You cannot tell everyone in cars/trucks they must drive a Smart for two and have a limiter so people cannot go fast enough to cause serious injury.

Last point first --you are aware that there are many roads 18 wheelers are prohibited from, right? I'm not arguing for banning heavy powered cargo bikes, I want them kept off MUPs.

The issue with powered cargo bikes is that they can be heavy and fast. If you understand the math, the interaction of speed and weight is such that a heavy and fast vehicle packs a whole lot more kinetic energy than a heavy slow vehicle or a fast light vehicle. There are heavy pedal-powered cargo bikes, but I don't think it's plausible that a non-assisted human can propel a 600 pound cargo bike at 20+ mph.

You didn't run your bs detector on your own argument. Basically, you're claiming that it's up to other people on the path to avoid the unsuitable vehicle being ridden there. That argument justifies riding motorcycles on the paths and possibly small cars.
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Old 02-12-20, 09:26 AM
  #58  
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I completely agree they are a super idea for those who may struggle with keeping up. You haters dont want some one with some years behind them, or maybe health issues or what about wounded vets to feel decent keeping up? Maybe they were once avid bicyclists and want to hang with their friends still? Used in competition, of course not, but how many of us have ever seen that anyway...I say if it helps and makes you happy, go for it!!!!!
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Old 02-12-20, 09:35 AM
  #59  
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Some will yell at an e-bike
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Old 02-12-20, 10:25 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Chad991 View Post
I completely agree they are a super idea for those who may struggle with keeping up. You haters dont want some one with some years behind them, or maybe health issues or what about wounded vets to feel decent keeping up? Maybe they were once avid bicyclists and want to hang with their friends still? Used in competition, of course not, but how many of us have ever seen that anyway...I say if it helps and makes you happy, go for it!!!!!

I'm going to go you one stronger--it's none of my business why they want it. I'm glad it's there for the people you describe, but I don't think anyone without a disability or reduced capability needs my approval either. "They like it" is reason enough.
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Old 02-12-20, 10:43 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by livedarklions View Post
I'm going to go you one stronger--it's none of my business why they want it. I'm glad it's there for the people you describe, but I don't think anyone without a disability or reduced capability needs my approval either. "They like it" is reason enough.
well said
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Old 02-12-20, 10:48 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Chad991 View Post
well said

That said, zipping past a young guy on one of those under my own power never gets old.
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