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-   -   Why do we say it - (https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1192633-why-do-we-say.html)

wphamilton 01-25-20 05:35 PM

Why do we say it -
 
Why is bicycle pronounced "bi-sickle" but motorcycle is pronounced "motor-sikel"?

indyfabz 01-25-20 05:42 PM

Why ask why?

Troul 01-25-20 05:48 PM

Lotsa tings to yeewonder bout. Just like some say Soda, pop, or coke.

MikeWMass 01-25-20 06:12 PM

Arlo Guthrie says motor-sickle here:

Frank Zappa says by-sikel here:
(This is really pretty funny, IMO)

BobbyG 01-25-20 06:19 PM

https://www.******.com/r/explainlike...otorcycle_and/

freeranger 01-25-20 06:32 PM

[MENTION=305660]MikeWMass[/MENTION], ya beat me to the Arlo reference!

spelger 01-25-20 06:46 PM

Why do we drive on parkways but park on driveways?

delbiker1 01-25-20 07:38 PM

I remember the Steve Allen show with Frank Zappa. He was also on " What's My Line ". I saw Zappa twice, 3 weeks apart, 1973 or '74. First at the Chicago Auditorium and then at NIU Fieldhouse. Great musician and showman. A Lot of props and stage antics.

wphamilton 01-25-20 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by BobbyG (Post 21299695)

r e d d i t.com in that url.
Interesting but I can't buy it, partly because that "unstressed syllable" idea is a crock, and partly because I never hear the referenced schwa sound - it's always a short "i" in bicycle.

Also "sickle: is just as easy to say as "cycle" no matter how many syllables so why isn't it "motorsickle"? I know that some dialects do have motorsickle but why isn't it the normal way? Bicycles obviously predated motorcycles - where did it change?

DrIsotope 01-25-20 09:15 PM

Syllables, and what syllable the stress falls on.

bi-sick-uhl
tri-sick-uhl

mo-tor-sigh-kuhl

Koyote 01-25-20 09:21 PM

I pronounce it “motorbike.” Problem solved.

DrIsotope 01-25-20 09:28 PM

And then I remembered Wesley from 30 Rock, and his use of the non-word "footcycle," which I would say as foot-sigh-kuhl-- with the stress on the middle syllable.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9fbeb57529.gif

wphamilton 01-25-20 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 21299852)
Syllables, and what syllable the stress falls on.

bi-sick-uhl
tri-sick-uhl

mo-tor-sigh-kuhl

Insight and encite don't follow that rule.

DrIsotope 01-25-20 10:47 PM

Well, "encite" isn't a word. Insight and incite are both words. The former is from the Low German, and the latter from French.

The emphasis is on the first syllable in one and the second in the other, because they have utterly different meanings, and come from different roots.

Motorcycle and bicycle share a suffix, from the same origin.

HTupolev 01-25-20 11:27 PM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 21299852)
Syllables, and what syllable the stress falls on.

bi-sick-uhl
tri-sick-uhl

mo-tor-sigh-kuhl

Yep.

It's pretty much because it rolls off the tongue better this way.

Troul 01-26-20 12:08 AM

a motor biker might be psycho for driving such a small vehicle along with larger motorized vehicles capable of the same speeds.
a cyclists could have poor health, & rather becoming down with a sickness, they choose to ride for better health.

livedarklions 01-26-20 04:48 AM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 21299852)
Syllables, and what syllable the stress falls on.

bi-sick-uhl
tri-sick-uhl

mo-tor-sigh-kuhl

That's not really a good explanation because one can stress or not stress a long "i" sound. There's definitely a vowel shift in "bicycle" and "tricycle". My guess is that the repeated long "i" sound just sounds awkward to most people.

On the other hand, the word "cyclical" is pronounced with a long i sound by the British, and a short i sound by Americans, but it doesn't come up in conversation very often.

horatio 01-26-20 05:17 AM

I sikel on my bi-sickels.

wphamilton 01-26-20 06:07 AM


Originally Posted by DrIsotope (Post 21299913)
Well, "encite" isn't a word. Insight and incite are both words. The former is from the Low German, and the latter from French.

The emphasis is on the first syllable in one and the second in the other, because they have utterly different meanings, and come from different roots.

Motorcycle and bicycle share a suffix, from the same origin.

The explanation presented was based on phonetics, not etymology or spelling (:foo:)

wphamilton 01-26-20 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 21300010)
That's not really a good explanation because one can stress or not stress a long "i" sound. There's definitely a vowel shift in "bicycle" and "tricycle". My guess is that the repeated long "i" sound just sounds awkward to most people.

On the other hand, the word "cyclical" is pronounced with a long i sound by the British, and a short i sound by Americans, but it doesn't come up in conversation very often.

I dunno, people seem ok with saying "eyesight", with the repeated long i.

I don't think it has anything to do with the phonetic rules (which don't work anyway), nor with etymology especially since both words share origins. Somewhere it changed from sickle to sigh-kal, and it's a puzzle. Keeping me up at night.

SayWatt 01-26-20 06:52 AM

Don’t think I’ve ever thought about it or used either word verbally. I just say bike. If a distinction needs to be made I will say motorbike sport bike mountain bike etc

Moe Zhoost 01-26-20 06:59 AM

Lotta folks around here say "motorsickel"

freeranger 01-26-20 07:22 AM

So, should people who ride bicycles be called "sicklists?"

wphamilton 01-26-20 07:27 AM


Originally Posted by freeranger (Post 21300076)
So, should people who ride bicycles be called "sicklists?"

Now you've done it, another question to haunt me. If you ride sickles you're a sicklist, just stands to reason.

dedhed 01-26-20 07:46 AM

Call Martha & Grant

https://www.waywordradio.org/

big chainring 01-26-20 08:35 AM

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7b0d0f8c44.jpg
"Don't touch my motor- sickle Ange"

livedarklions 01-26-20 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by wphamilton (Post 21300033)
I dunno, people seem ok with saying "eyesight", with the repeated long i.

I don't think it has anything to do with the phonetic rules (which don't work anyway), nor with etymology especially since both words share origins. Somewhere it changed from sickle to sigh-kal, and it's a puzzle. Keeping me up at night.

A lot of these things are accidents of history, occurring for reasons that are long since forgotten, and then we try to retrofit an explanation.

It would be interesting to know how bicycle was being pronounced at the time motorcycle was coined. Not sure if anyone knows that. There may have even been a conscious effort by the people marketing the new product to pronounce it differently to differentiate between the products.

berner 01-26-20 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by livedarklions (Post 21300133)
A lot of these things are accidents of history, occurring for reasons that are long since forgotten, and then we try to retrofit an explanation.

Variations in pronounciation is a mystery deeper than quantum physics. Having lived in the deep South for 10 years or so, which I very much liked, I never understood how ordinary one syllable words, such as "eye or I" turn into two syllables. Just as mysterious is a heavy duty Scots accent and Caribbean accents which I'm informed are actually English. For example, the phrase "Am Fay Embra" is "I'm from Edinburg", believe it or not.

Road Fan 01-26-20 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by delbiker1 (Post 21299763)
I remember the Steve Allen show with Frank Zappa. He was also on " What's My Line ". I saw Zappa twice, 3 weeks apart, 1973 or '74. First at the Chicago Auditorium and then at NIU Fieldhouse. Great musician and showman. A Lot of props and stage antics.

I think a high school friend of mine had a band which was part of opening for Zappa at NIU.

wipekitty 01-26-20 12:41 PM


Originally Posted by berner (Post 21300184)
Having lived in the deep South for 10 years or so, which I very much liked, I never understood how ordinary one syllable words, such as "eye or I" turn into two syllables.

I was told by a Southern lady that when you live in the Deep South, you must speak slowly so that your mouth does not overheat. (Put that in your best Selma, AL accent!)

That doesn't explain the phenomenon of two words becoming one (e.g. Old Bay becomes Olbay, Spring Hill becomes Springill).

I'm kind of obsessed with variations in pronunciation across the US (having lived in no fewer than seven different regions of the US - with seven different accents - and adding in my mom's East Coast accent to make eight.) The Southern lady might actually be on to something, though. If you want a good Fargo/Minnesota accent, go stand in a freezer until your mouth goes numb. Amazing!


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