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Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21982629)
Streetsblog surprised me today by having an article which highlights a real issue without bending it all out of shape: How the ‘Budget-Bike Trap’ Creates Inequality
To some extent, this is a rant against department store bike-shaped-objects, but it's also a recognition of the lack of affordable alternatives, and as such, it's food for thought. There should exist a budget bike built for utility, not bogus marketing features. No shocks, perhaps not single speed but maybe only a rear derailleur. Probably rim brakes for simplicity and easy of maintenance. Standard size interchangeable components. It probably already even exists in the developing world, it's just not what is imagined to appeal to, and shipped for sale to, throwaway culture consumers. And the big box stores should carry it. It might not look fancy on the floor, but word would get around that it was a good choice - maybe not for the child gift market, but at least for the adult utility one. Assembly should be local - sure, import containers of components, but putting them together in an organized fashion locally would make sense, and from pallets of like parts, not individually boxed "kits" mis-assembled by someone isolated in the back room of the store for a few bucks per "bike" as these stores currently do. Think what the bike coops do, but feed them with sound components rather than be rescuing basket cases. Would make a good jobs program. There should be a camp where you build your own - there's a huge market for both adult "experiences" and summer programs to fill kids time, and nothing creates self-reliant ownership like knowing how all the parts went together. And while the prebuild has machine assembled wheels, for the camp on day one you're handed the front rim, hub and spokes and walk through lacing it as group, day two you do the dished rear... |
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21982629)
<<<Snip... ...>>>
There should be a camp where you build your own - there's a huge market for both adult "experiences" and summer programs to fill kids time, and nothing creates self-reliant ownership like knowing how all the parts went together. And while the prebuild has machine assembled wheels, for the camp on day one you're handed the front rim, hub and spokes and walk through lacing it as group, day two you do the dished rear... However, as a long time rider, this concept of a camp or course is an really great idea. Back before they went TU, the local Performance Bicycles Shop had evening classes on various areas of basic to moderate bike maintenance. Attendees could also buy tools at a small discount. Most were not in it to become DIY mechanics, but more to familiarize themselves with what was serious and not and what the limits of their own skills/knowledge was. The tire repair and brake maintenance classes were the most popular. I went to one on drivetrain as I had just migrated from friction DT shifters, freewheels, and a vintage bike to new bike indexed brake lever shifters, aero brake levers, cassettes, and Hollowtech II BBs. I wanted to see for myself what was involved in both adjustments and maintenance and see if I was set with tools. In 90 minutes I learned a lot and picked up a cassette lock ring tool. We had a similar session in the early 1960s at Boy Scouts on maintaining our coasterbrake bikes to include packing bearings and truing wheels where I also learned that a vise-grip pliers is ALWAYS a tool of last and final resort. Never forgot that one. |
State bicycles are available at Target and they look reasonable for a person
that isn't going to do a lot of riding. Prices are reasonable too. Decent bike for occassional riders. |
Originally Posted by Reflector Guy
(Post 21983100)
I'd bet they aren't as horrible as people here like to say they are. If the big box stores sell a million bikes in a year, how many are totally unrideable? A thousand? 900-thousand? Probably closer to the former than the latter.
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Great analogy, and that's what the bike co-ops are! Parts are available for quite a reasonable price and you get to pick them out. Purchases support a great local cause! And, yes, we do teach folks how to repair their bikes-and even hold classes for it!
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In defense of box store bikes. About five years I moved and wanted a cheap bike to hold me over. Found a new Schwinn hybrid/mountain bike at Target for under $200. Rode it for a couple of seasons until I moved on to a better bike. The bike was heavy, well-built, and reliable. The only problem was the suspension fork which was too soft (probably could have been permanently locked out). I left the bike with my son who let it sit outdoors for 2-3 years. Figured the bike would be toast after that, but with some light sanding, grease and a little touch-up paint, the bike was in good shape. Did a test ride before I sold it a few months ago and was surprised at how slow, but also how stable and comfortable it was compared to my titanium road bike. My guess is that the bike will still be ridden 10 years from now.
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Originally Posted by altondavis2
(Post 21990701)
State bicycles are available at Target and they look reasonable for a person
that isn't going to do a lot of riding. Prices are reasonable too. Decent bike for occassional riders. |
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21990851)
Part of the problem is necessity cyclists trying to use something intended for occasional riders to forget in their garage, as their source of daily transport.
The ultimate solution in search of a problem thread. BF hall of shame material. :thumb: |
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21990851)
Part of the problem is necessity cyclists trying to use something intended for occasional riders to forget in their garage, as their source of daily transport.
State bikes will work for those that come out every now and then and sit around asking questions before deciding if they're going to ride. |
Originally Posted by altondavis2
(Post 21990941)
State bikes will work for those that come out every now and then and sit
around asking questions before deciding if they're going to ride. It was about those with a pressing need for reliable transportation. If it weren't so pathetic, it would be downright funny how supposedly pro-bike people can belittle those who depend on bikes due to lack of any other option. |
i think what you mean is is the same thing i have been saying , we cant allow the bike industry to continue to tell us what we should buy , producing world tour frames based on uci rules and racing tech , we need bikes that are accessible and if we keep supporting disc brakes and electronic shifting we will see the more accessible bikes vanish , and the parts we need are growing smaller ,:(
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Good Bikes
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21990953)
"I don't feel like it" cyclists aren't who the thread was about... rather the exact opposite.
It was about those with a pressing need for reliable transportation. If it weren't so pathetic, it would be downright funny how supposedly pro-bike people can belittle those who depend on bikes due to lack of any other option. So many well built reliable bikes available in the $400 - 600 range. |
Originally Posted by altondavis2
(Post 21990998)
As long as its recreation and they're having fun. Or if the bike supplies a reliable transportation need.
So many well built reliable bikes available in the $400 - 600 range. $400-600 may be reasonable for recreation. It's twice an already stretched budget for an obligatory cyclist. |
Originally Posted by Toespeas
(Post 21990985)
we cant allow the bike industry to continue to tell us what we should buy , producing world tour frames based on uci rules and racing tech , we need bikes that are accessible and if we keep supporting disc brakes and electronic shifting...
Ride whatever you like for enjoyment without guilt; that's utterly irrelevant to this issue. What gets sold to people with severe financial limitations is the issue under discussion. |
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21991015)
The part of the bike industry that brings you electronic shifting is utterly irrelevant to the part that could be supplying basic transport but instead puts BOS's in big box stores.
Ride whatever you like for enjoyment without guilt; that's utterly irrelevant to this issue. What gets sold to people with severe financial limitations is the issue under discussion. Not just severe financial limitations. According to you they also have no time to shop for a serviceable used bicycle, have no ability to wrench their own bikes, should not have to maintain their own bikes for that matter, should not have to travel more than a mile or so to make their purchase, and of course should have their $250 bikes lovingly assembled by their neighbors who of course have nothing better to do. :thumb::thumb::thumb: |
Originally Posted by glassman83
(Post 21990747)
Box Store bikes lack critical lubrication on every bearing surface.
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Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21991009)
Here we go again...
$400-600 may be reasonable for recreation. It's twice an already stretched budget for an obligatory cyclist. There is always the option of purchasing these same bikes used. "There is always a way." |
Originally Posted by altondavis2
(Post 21991592)
----------------------------
There is always the option of purchasing these same bikes used. If cycling is merely something that sounds like it could be fun, you can be patient and make the most of the used market - exactly how my parents shopped for bikes for us when we needed size upgrades, and what I did when finding one for a relative. But someone who needs to get to work can't take such a wait and see approach if their existing bike breaks beyond repair, or more typically gets stolen. |
Originally Posted by glassman83
(Post 21990747)
Box Store bikes lack critical lubrication on every bearing surface. Grease must be in short supply-or more costly- in China! Hence, they wear quickly and fail miserably, generally within two riding seasons. However, they were the bread & butter for the LBS before they retired. Our bike co-op (Re-Bicycle Lenawee on Fb) picked up their slack and we're overwhelmed with service requests. Most importantly, the internet procured box store bikes that folks are bringing in this year (for us to assemble) are literally thrown together, boxed up and shipped out. Worse quality than what we're used to seeing. Just hope our parts inventory holds out. Give me an old Schwinn with friction shifters and a decent drivetrain and it'll last years beyond any new box store bike, guaranteed!
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Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21991009)
Here we go again...
$400-600 may be reasonable for recreation. It's twice an already stretched budget for an obligatory cyclist. Here we go again... The fact that there are people who can only afford to pay $200-$300 for a bike does not mean that a good reliable bike can be built and sold for that price. |
Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21991615)
Here we go again...
The fact that there are people who can only afford to pay $200-$300 for a bike does not mean that a good reliable bike can be built and sold for that price. The fact that things laden with complex anti-features can be offered at half that price shows that something simpler to manufacture but sounder could be offered in the stated range. Then there's the fact that they are made for use in other countries... |
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21991621)
The lack of attention span is strong today!
The fact that things laden with complex anti-features can be offered at half that price shows that something simpler to manufacture but sounder could be offered in the stated range. Then there's the fact that they are made for use in other countries... |
Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21991625)
You keep employing this fallacy -- the idea that anyone who disagrees with you simply doesn't understand your argument.
You're not "disagreeing" but simply ignoring the evidence. |
Originally Posted by UniChris
(Post 21991621)
The fact that things laden with complex anti-features can be offered at half that price shows that something simpler to manufacture but sounder could be offered in the stated range.
Will there be any profit in this enterprise to keep the investors happy? |
When I was working 25 hours a week on near minimum wage 25 years ago I only had a bike (cost me $450 at the time). I made sure I had a quality bike and not junk and I did minimal maintenance on it so it ran. Without a bike I was screwed so ensuring it ran was a top priority. Can't afford a bike? I couldn't afford not to have one.
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