Igh
04-25-21 | 08:05 PM
#76
Cheerfully low end
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,227
Likes: 1,298
Yes, standing makes it much easier to protect your knees. And swept touring bars make it so much easier to climb out of the saddle for extended periods of time. It can be handled (at least for riding our hills!)
Otto
Otto
Last edited by ofajen; 04-25-21 at 08:11 PM.
04-26-21 | 02:48 AM
#77
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 5,965
Likes: 1,388
From: SW Fl.
Bikes: 1999 DAHON Mariner, Day6 Semi Recumbent "FIREBALL", 1981 Custom Touring Paramount, 1983 Road Paramount, 2013 Giant Propel Advanced SL3, 2018 Specialized Red Roubaix Expert mech., 2002 Magna 7sp hybrid, 1976 Bassett Racing 45sp Cruiser
frame/fork seen >>>
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114681855745
04-26-21 | 04:05 PM
#78
Hack
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,300
Likes: 210
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Bikes: TrueNorth CX bike, 88 Bianchi Strada (currently Sturmey'd), Yess World Cup race BMX, Pure Cruiser race BMX, RSD Mayor v3 Fatbike
The problem with a single-speed is not just loss of efficiency, even if humans are capable of a wide torque band; Pushing hard on a tall gear while sitting in the saddle puts much more stress on the knees, and you'll regret it over time. It's different if you have the ability for long climbs out of the saddle with your legs much straighter. I rode a recumbent for a time on tours because it took the pressure off my hands, but inability to stand on climbs took its toll on my knees, so I switched back to a conventional bike but with aero bars to move the pressure from my hands to my forearms near the elbow. My recumbent just didn't have low enough gearing, riding a long uphill grade with a touring load. These days there are more solutions for that, but I still want the ability for standing climbs, and bringing a LWB 'bent up and down stairs was a bear.
04-27-21 | 09:03 AM
#79
Palmer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,156
Likes: 2,263
From: Parts Unknown
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
10%. Hmph. Other studies have suggested much more.
The Kyle/Berto efficiency test measured the mechanical efficiency of three speed hubs as superior to a Shimano 27-speed derailleur drivetrain and diverging only a few percent between gears, yet the IGHs are disparaged as 'draggy', inefficiency and 'friction boxes'. Riders say they can feel this.
So it goes. Truly:
"Rationalization is more important than sex." - The Big Chill
The Kyle/Berto efficiency test measured the mechanical efficiency of three speed hubs as superior to a Shimano 27-speed derailleur drivetrain and diverging only a few percent between gears, yet the IGHs are disparaged as 'draggy', inefficiency and 'friction boxes'. Riders say they can feel this.
So it goes. Truly:
"Rationalization is more important than sex." - The Big Chill
04-27-21 | 10:57 AM
#80
Cheerfully low end
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,227
Likes: 1,298
All I really care about is that it seems to work out that way for me. The last 3500 miles have all been single speed so I’m accustomed to the strength requirements at various cadences. Whether it’s 45 rpm up a 7.5% grade, 60 rpm up a 5% grade, 80 rpm up a 3% grade or 80 rpm into a 12 mph headwind, the power output I can manage for a 3-5 minute interval seems to fit within that 10% range. YMMV. I would not be surprised to see a wider variation for riders who don’t ride single speed.
Otto
Otto
Last edited by ofajen; 04-27-21 at 11:00 AM.
04-27-21 | 11:02 AM
#81
Thread Starter
Live not by lies.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 837
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
Yeah, hills and headwinds are tough enough on single speed. My MTB is a vintage steel frame from 1988 and not exactly light but the bike is maybe 27 lbs or so. I use the best, fastest rolling tires I can. I don’t think I’d want to use anything heavier.
With SS gearing and touring bars it does rather feel like I’m riding a bigger version of a kid’s bike, but in a very good way! 😊
Otto
With SS gearing and touring bars it does rather feel like I’m riding a bigger version of a kid’s bike, but in a very good way! 😊
Otto
Pic?
04-27-21 | 11:07 AM
#82
Thread Starter
Live not by lies.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 837
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
The problem with a single-speed is not just loss of efficiency, even if humans are capable of a wide torque band; Pushing hard on a tall gear while sitting in the saddle puts much more stress on the knees, and you'll regret it over time. It's different if you have the ability for long climbs out of the saddle with your legs much straighter. I rode a recumbent for a time on tours because it took the pressure off my hands, but inability to stand on climbs took its toll on my knees, so I switched back to a conventional bike but with aero bars to move the pressure from my hands to my forearms near the elbow. My recumbent just didn't have low enough gearing, riding a long uphill grade with a touring load. These days there are more solutions for that, but I still want the ability for standing climbs, and bringing a LWB 'bent up and down stairs was a bear.
That’s why those new cruisers with the forward bottom bracket aren’t for me.
I went up 2 teeth on my little ones freewheel to help her out uphill. She doesn’t stand up yet.
I was watching her pedal and realizing her legs were not extending nearly far enough (crank arms to short for the rest of the bike).
Good thing the next bike for her came with longer cranks and when I stripped it down the frame is ridiculously light.
04-27-21 | 11:09 AM
#83
Thread Starter
Live not by lies.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 837
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
I built up a chrome Bassett Racing Cruiser frame/fork with a triple front, Sturmey Archer 5 speed hub and a 3 cog sprocket mounted on the hub. 45 gears with an awesome range.
frame/fork seen >>>
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114681855745
frame/fork seen >>>
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114681855745
04-27-21 | 11:13 AM
#84
Thread Starter
Live not by lies.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 837
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
10%. Hmph. Other studies have suggested much more.
The Kyle/Berto efficiency test measured the mechanical efficiency of three speed hubs as superior to a Shimano 27-speed derailleur drivetrain and diverging only a few percent between gears, yet the IGHs are disparaged as 'draggy', inefficiency and 'friction boxes'. Riders say they can feel this.
So it goes. Truly:
"Rationalization is more important than sex." - The Big Chill
The Kyle/Berto efficiency test measured the mechanical efficiency of three speed hubs as superior to a Shimano 27-speed derailleur drivetrain and diverging only a few percent between gears, yet the IGHs are disparaged as 'draggy', inefficiency and 'friction boxes'. Riders say they can feel this.
So it goes. Truly:
"Rationalization is more important than sex." - The Big Chill
Probably one of my next dates with my wife will be purposely renting an IGH bike. And maybe us riding to a coffee shop or something.
04-28-21 | 08:01 AM
#85
Cheerfully low end
Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 2,227
Likes: 1,298
Here you go! Notice the bar tape extends to the stem clamp. I use the whole bar. Most of my ride time, I either grip somewhere along the forward bends or right in the center when cruising on the flat, especially into the wind. The grips are mainly for maneuvering, braking or standing, though sometimes I grip just ahead of the levers when standing.
Otto
Last edited by ofajen; 04-28-21 at 08:09 AM.
04-28-21 | 10:12 AM
#86
Thread Starter
Live not by lies.
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 1,343
Likes: 837
Bikes: BigBox bikes.
Here you go! Notice the bar tape extends to the stem clamp. I use the whole bar. Most of my ride time, I either grip somewhere along the forward bends or right in the center when cruising on the flat, especially into the wind. The grips are mainly for maneuvering, braking or standing, though sometimes I grip just ahead of the levers when standing.
Otto
I think an upright bar MTB like that is probably the closest interpretation to what would have been just called a bicycle 60 years ago.
Above statement totally a guess.
