Notices
General Cycling Discussion Have a cycling related question or comment that doesn't fit in one of the other specialty forums? Drop on in and post in here! When possible, please select the forum above that most fits your post!

Tire Width Myths

Old 04-25-21, 07:24 PM
  #101  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 4,897

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 839 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
​​​​​​Time trialers.
That was half the info I was looking for. What size tires do the professional time trial racers use?
Paul Barnard is offline  
Old 04-25-21, 07:26 PM
  #102  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,501
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2856 Post(s)
Liked 534 Times in 372 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
That was half the info I was looking for. What size tires do the professional time trial racers use?
Indeed.

I have shown you the path. It is up to you to follow it.
njkayaker is online now  
Old 04-25-21, 07:27 PM
  #103  
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,290
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 852 Post(s)
Liked 304 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
What size tires do the professional time trial racers use?
The correct one. At least the teams with a grasp of the science behind equipment choices. Others do what they’ve always done because they’ve always done it that way.
asgelle is offline  
Old 04-25-21, 07:28 PM
  #104  
Paul Barnard
For The Fun of It
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Louisissippi Coast
Posts: 4,897

Bikes: Lynskey Backroad, Litespeed T6, Lynskey MT29, Burley Duet

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1560 Post(s)
Liked 839 Times in 430 Posts
Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
I have shown you the path. It is up to you to follow it.
I did some quick Googlage. It looks like the pro time trial riders haven't got the memo that fatter is faster. I didn't do a deep enough dive to be completely confident though.
Paul Barnard is offline  
Old 04-25-21, 07:43 PM
  #105  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
ofajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked 405 Times in 267 Posts
Originally Posted by bigevil View Post
there's been so much helpful data and opinion here, but I think like many eluded to it's really so much about personal preference and experience. For now I'm going to stick to these tires cause I freaking LOVE em.
Yeah, there are many factors that can matter. I wore out a pair of Compass (pre-RH) Rat Trap Pass 26er tires. They are the fastest rolling 26ers I’ve ridden and probably the fastest around. I’ve since replaced them with Continental Contact Speed 26x2.0 for my smooth tires (and also use 26x2.2 Race King Protection in mud, where the RTP is worthless.)

The choice to use the Contact Speed is based on their advantages: 1) about 1000x easier to get on and off the rim and seated properly, 2) flat protection layer, 3) less than half the price, 4) seem to handle better on pavement, 5) reflective stripe. There isn’t a large difference in rolling resistance. Really not obvious so not enough to outweigh the advantages of the Contact Speed.

So I would still say the RTP is an amazing tire but it happens not to be the best choice for my rides.

Otto
ofajen is offline  
Old 04-25-21, 08:35 PM
  #106  
aclinjury
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 640
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Liked 161 Times in 122 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
That was half the info I was looking for. What size tires do the professional time trial racers use?
if the TT road is smooth (like most), then they're using 23c. Nobody is using 28c. But of course weekend warriors say their fat Rene Herse allow them to dominate strava sphere. So there you have it.
aclinjury is offline  
Likes For aclinjury:
Old 04-26-21, 05:17 AM
  #107  
njkayaker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,501
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2856 Post(s)
Liked 534 Times in 372 Posts
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard View Post
I did some quick Googlage. It looks like the pro time trial riders haven't got the memo that fatter is faster. I didn't do a deep enough dive to be completely confident though.
I'm not surprised.

I think those events tend to be on roads with good surfaces.
njkayaker is online now  
Likes For njkayaker:
Old 04-26-21, 06:29 AM
  #108  
gear64
Senior Member
 
gear64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: STL Missouri
Posts: 473

Bikes: State Black Label All Road, Univega Gran Premio, Lotus Classique, Terranaut Metro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked 94 Times in 62 Posts
I'm a new convert to fat tires. After decades of 25s, then maybe 5+ year s of 28s on some bikes, I now have 38s on new gravel bike. I can't tell the difference speed/effort wise, but the comfort on crappy urban roads and MUPs with uneven transitions is night and day. Also loving the 1x. 11 cogs with a 40 is way more than enough for me in the area I live. Finally embracing reality over fantasy (my abilities, needs), may lose the drop bars next.
gear64 is offline  
Old 04-26-21, 06:45 AM
  #109  
ofajen
Cheerfully low end
 
ofajen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 272 Post(s)
Liked 405 Times in 267 Posts
Originally Posted by gear64 View Post
Finally embracing reality over fantasy (my abilities, needs), may lose the drop bars next.
If you do, look into trying out a swept back touring bar like the Nitto Albatross. With standard grips, MTB levers and standard cork bar tape forward of the levers to the stem clamp, you have a great range of riding positions and postures available. You can put the shifters in bar ends and clear the entire bar surface for various sitting and standing positions.

I mostly rode drop bars for the last 50 years but last year’s experiment with the touring bars seems to work better for me. Particularly helpful since I’ve been back to riding single speed for almost a year now, because they give a better range of positions for riding while standing than drop bars do. YMMV.

Oh, yeah. You will probably want a long stem with this type of bar. Mine puts the center of the stem clamp almost 120mm forward from the steering axis.

Otto

Last edited by ofajen; 04-26-21 at 11:41 AM.
ofajen is offline  
Likes For ofajen:
Old 04-26-21, 08:59 AM
  #110  
AdkMtnMonster
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Off the front
Posts: 713

Bikes: Road bikes, mountain bikes, a gravel bike…

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked 745 Times in 320 Posts
Originally Posted by uprightbent View Post
Let's mix in some helmet safety data, some odd Grant Petersen views, electronic shifting opinions, and we'll crash the server.

So you’re saying the disc brake issue is settled? What about chain lube?
AdkMtnMonster is offline  
Likes For AdkMtnMonster:
Old 04-28-21, 12:03 AM
  #111  
SurferRosa
Señor Member
 
SurferRosa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Pac NW
Posts: 4,654

Bikes: Old school lightweights

Mentioned: 61 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1908 Post(s)
Liked 2,160 Times in 1,204 Posts
I don't find fatter tires on pavement more "comfortable." Softer, yes, but not more comfortable. My mind is more at ease on the narrow 23 and 25mm tires I've always ridden. When my mind is at ease, that's where I'm most comfortable.
SurferRosa is online now  
Old 05-01-21, 08:20 AM
  #112  
The Chemist
Senior Member
 
The Chemist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 665

Bikes: 2011 Giant FCR3500 // 2008 Dahon Boardwalk

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked 113 Times in 64 Posts
I personally think that 28s are perfect for road cycling. And as that's the only kind of cycling I do, that's the size of tire I've used on my bike for years.
The Chemist is offline  
Old 05-01-21, 08:46 AM
  #113  
GhostRider62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 867
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 534 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times in 251 Posts
I have spent thousands on his tires and have tested tires in many ways. I currently use a coast down somewhat similar to Jan's method and I also use Rchung application to tease out the real world Crr. One aspect of Jan's testing clearly biases his results towards fat tires-the speed of his tests. The fastest that he tests is 18 mph and usually much slower around 15 mph. Most of my riding is closer to 30 mph. This data is a full year of riding including PBP, posted for those who will call BS. I mount a 23 mm on the front wheel and a 25 mm on the rear, GP5000 with latex tubes.

One myth is the assumption that Crr is a constant. It is not. If anyone does careful testing at higher speeds, it becomes quite apparent.

Another myth is the rolling resistance tests on a drum are close to real world values, although at 20 mph the relative rankings match my testing. In other words, if tire A is better than tire B on the drum, those results are consistent but these rankings can swap at higher speeds.

GhostRider62 is offline  
Likes For GhostRider62:
Old 05-01-21, 12:23 PM
  #114  
Atlas Shrugged
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 603
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 363 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times in 203 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
I have spent thousands on his tires and have tested tires in many ways. I currently use a coast down somewhat similar to Jan's method and I also use Rchung application to tease out the real world Crr. One aspect of Jan's testing clearly biases his results towards fat tires-the speed of his tests. The fastest that he tests is 18 mph and usually much slower around 15 mph. Most of my riding is closer to 30 mph. This data is a full year of riding including PBP, posted for those who will call BS. I mount a 23 mm on the front wheel and a 25 mm on the rear, GP5000 with latex tubes.

One myth is the assumption that Crr is a constant. It is not. If anyone does careful testing at higher speeds, it becomes quite apparent.

Another myth is the rolling resistance tests on a drum are close to real world values, although at 20 mph the relative rankings match my testing. In other words, if tire A is better than tire B on the drum, those results are consistent but these rankings can swap at higher speeds.

Since the average speed of of a Tour de France time trial is around 46kph you fall into a unique category given your speeds. Since I am lucky if I average 28 kph on a solo ride, tire width is not as critical for myself and most riders with normal capabilities Jans test parameters fall within my sweetspot.

Last edited by Atlas Shrugged; 05-01-21 at 01:49 PM.
Atlas Shrugged is offline  
Old 05-01-21, 02:07 PM
  #115  
asgelle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 4,290
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 852 Post(s)
Liked 304 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by GhostRider62 View Post
Another myth is the rolling resistance tests on a drum are close to real world values, ...
Is there really enjoyment to be had making up straw man arguments just to knock them down? No knowledable person believes rollers replicate on-road Crr values. Further, how could they given Crr depends on road surface roughness and the range seen in that? It's like saying I'm correcting the myth that a stopped watch tells the correct time.
asgelle is offline  
Old 05-01-21, 02:39 PM
  #116  
walnutz
Senior Member
 
walnutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: ATX
Posts: 606

Bikes: CO-OP ADV 3.1 aka Beeftank, All-City Super Professional aka Bulldozer

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked 123 Times in 64 Posts
Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Is there really enjoyment to be had making up straw man arguments just to knock them down? No knowledable person believes rollers replicate on-road Crr values. Further, how could they given Crr depends on road surface roughness and the range seen in that? It's like saying I'm correcting the myth that a stopped watch tells the correct time.
Gotta disagree with you there. People take these tests pretty seriously, which is why they come up in all these discussions 😝
walnutz is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.