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Needed-Cleat Redesign

Old 08-11-21, 06:28 AM
  #1  
ShelterIslJoe
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Needed-Cleat Redesign

Lots of old school riders with rat trap pedals. We need cleats designed for the new shoes that work with toe clips.
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Old 08-11-21, 06:30 AM
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​​​​​​Bicycle Shoe Cleats for Toeclip Pedals $29.95 at Yellow Jersey
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Old 08-11-21, 06:37 AM
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Current clipless pedal systems work well. Clips and straps are dangerous and fiddly if used as designed. Give clipless a try.
Edit- Yellow Jersey, who knew? Those things look scary!

Last edited by shelbyfv; 08-11-21 at 06:41 AM.
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Old 08-11-21, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Edit- Yellow Jersey, who knew? Those things look scary!
Almost as scary as that website looks. Gave me a flashback.
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Old 08-11-21, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Almost as scary as that website looks. Gave me a flashback.
yea that site is a little uhh old school.. it makes me want to drag out my old TiBook so I can get the full effect
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Old 08-11-21, 07:30 AM
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Back in the 1970's I rode with cycling shoes with toe clips and cleats. I'll never do it again. Once the strap is tighted tight enough to hold the shoe, it is not easy to remove your foot from the pedal in an emergency. More than once I fell over at a stop light because I couldn't get my foot out in time. For me, yes the nostalgia is there but not the will to do it again.
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Old 08-11-21, 07:39 AM
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I rigged up my old bike with its original Dura Ace pedals, complete with period correct pedals and slotted cleats.

It was a little interesting getting out of town. The open country roads were fine even with the zero degree float.

I think it was a 50 mile experiment. I donít regret it, I stayed upright. I put my clipless back on after that ride and havenít looked back.

Fortunately, my old bike is from the 80ís, so things like red and white Looks are a perfectly correct option.
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Old 08-11-21, 07:47 AM
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I had a pair of cycling shoes that had the higher ridges. If the straps were tightened more than a tad loose, it was hard to disengage from the pedal. I am fine with the current available systems. I mostly use SPD on all my bikes. I like SPD-SL. but I get off my bike much more than I did in the past. I have covers for those, but, of course, I have to remember to take them with, and then put them on when I dismount the bike. SPD, plainly and simply, works best for me in most situations. I do have an errands bike that has plain flat pedals. I can just jump on it and not have to change shoes.
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Old 08-11-21, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Current clipless pedal systems work well. Clips and straps are dangerous and fiddly if used as designed. Give clipless a try.
Edit- Yellow Jersey, who knew? Those things look scary!
If you are worried that you might have problems with clipless use the CHEAP Shimano SpD MTB pedals. They are easy to get out of. The expensive pedals are harder to exit from. I would also suggest Pearl Izumi off-road pedals since they have good walking surfaces as well. Too bad the Performance shops are gone, They used to carry a selection of shoes so that you could actually try them on. Bicycle shops normally have a smaller selection and usually expensive shoes.
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Old 08-11-21, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by ShelterIslJoe View Post
Lots of old school riders with rat trap pedals. We need cleats designed for the new shoes that work with toe clips.
You want rat trap pedals, Ditch the toe clips and get a pair of Power Grips. Almost as secure as clipless. 500% safer than slotted cleats and straps, They were and still are dangerous. Screw nostalgia.

https://mrpbike.com/collections/power-grips
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Old 08-11-21, 01:23 PM
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I started riding with slotted cleats and straps back in the day. As soon as I could afford the new clipless Looks and compatible shoes, I switched and never looked back (1989 I think). I have no idea why on earth anyone would prefer those horrible old contraptions. They don't work as well for power transfer, are less convenient, and are 100x more dangerous.
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Old 08-11-21, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Almost as scary as that website looks. Gave me a flashback.
Web 1.0 in all its glory ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 08-11-21, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ShelterIslJoe View Post
Lots of old school riders with rat trap pedals. We need cleats designed for the new shoes that work with toe clips.
No we donít.

If you do, go ahead. But foolish imo. As multiple posters above pointed out.
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Old 08-11-21, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by coupster View Post
You want rat trap pedals, Ditch the toe clips and get a pair of Power Grips. Almost as secure as clipless. 500% safer than slotted cleats and straps, They were and still are dangerous. Screw nostalgia.

https://mrpbike.com/collections/power-grips
+1. Power Grips are fantastic for providing foot retention with regular shoes. I used them for years. Absolutely no need to drag clips and straps into the new century.

(BTW, if I'm not mistaken, our new OP is out of posts for the day and will have to wait until tomorrow to try bolstering his case. )
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Old 08-12-21, 08:27 AM
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Dangerous? Not really. I tipped over once during years and 10s of ks of riding, but I was riding past the high school & looking at girls.

It's the toe clips & straps that are the PIA, cleats or no cleats.
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Old 08-12-21, 09:56 AM
  #16  
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There is one major advantage to using a traditional toe clip, strap, and cleat setup…

you never have to look for your bike after a crash.

John
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Old 08-12-21, 02:42 PM
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Forum member 79pmooney swears the old slotted cleats and leather straps were and still are the bees knees. (Okay, maybe I shouldn't put words into his mouth. But I believe that's what he'll swear, based on many of his posts.) Of course, he also chooses to ride a fixed gear up and down long, steep Oregon hills. A guy who carries an extra fixed gear cog or two and the tool to change them on his hub, a century after the derailler was invented, is probably the only kind of guy who will shun clipless pedals (assuming some kind of retention is called for).

Don't get me wrong--I have some fixed gear and single speed bikes, and I ride them often, on flat-ish terrain. I also have some flat pedals with straps and plastic cages that I use with everyday shoes. I like them as a compromise between bike-specific shoes/clipless pedals and no foot retention. In more extreme riding situations, especially big elevation changes, I don't see why anyone would shun deraillers (or an IGH, or pinion gearbox... something that lets you shift on the fly just by moving a lever). And I fail to understand why anyone would still want 100 year old technology for foot retention, when modern clipless pedals are so good.

Luddites, amiright?
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Old 08-12-21, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
Current clipless pedal systems work well. Clips and straps are dangerous and fiddly if used as designed. Give clipless a try.
Edit- Yellow Jersey, who knew? Those things look scary!
Fiddly?

Yeah, a bit, especially getting into them. And, because retention is adjustable on the fly, you end up fiddling with it as conditions change. These are clear advantages for clipless pedals, and are the main reasons they took over as fast as they did.

Dangerous?

No, they're not. Even with the 600 / Dura-Ace pedals and matching PD-64 "winged" cleats, which had three points of retention, (slot in the cleat over the rear cage of the pedal, "wings" at the front of the cleat in the little tab it engaged at the front of the pedal, and the strap,) unless you've got your straps so tight that you can't feel your toes, if you yank your foot up and back, you come out of the pedal. In a crash? The only time I didn't part company with both pedals, (and the rest of the bike,) was when I crashed on the track with slotted cleats and double straps pulled hella tight.

In fact, the only time I've ever crashed due to not being able to get my feet out of a pedal, that pedal was clipless. They were the first clipless pedals I ever bought, the utterly reprehensible SR/Sampson. They had this feature where when you unclipped, the retention spring pressed on the spindle to keep the pedal level. When they got dirty, which they did because they're pedals, they wouldn't release at all. It was a zero-speed stop sign crash, and the only injury was to my pride. (Of which I had an excess, being 14 years old and male.)

Bottom line, toe clips, straps, and slotted cleats are not dangerous. They're just not. They're less convenient, you may not like them, and far be it from me to question anyone's preferences. But preference is all it is.

If I had a bike that I only ever rode in cycling shoes, that bike would probably be clipless. Although the NIB pair of Dura-Ace PD-7400s in my parts box might get the nod, as I really liked the PD-6400s I had... which replaced a set of Speedplays that I also really liked. (The only downside to the PD-6400 / 7400 is that cleats are unobtanium unless you have an original pair and a 3d printer.)

For anything other than a dedicated go-fast road bike, I'm going with clips & straps on a wide, flat, supportive pedal. For MTBs, I've used PowerGrips on every one I've ever owned, although I'm very interested in the Restrap diagonal straps, as they work like PowerGrips but you don't need to break out an allen wrench every time you change shoes and the mounting hardware looks way less vulnerable to damage.

--Shannon
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Old 08-12-21, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Back in the 1970's I rode with cycling shoes with toe clips and cleats. I'll never do it again. Once the strap is tighted tight enough to hold the shoe, it is not easy to remove your foot from the pedal in an emergency. More than once I fell over at a stop light because I couldn't get my foot out in time. For me, yes the nostalgia is there but not the will to do it again.
Been using clips and cleats just as long. In the '70s I also started riding fix gear. Fix gear became my first love. When clipless came out I could not see how it was safer doing crazy high speed descents where I had no iidea how straight I was keeping my feet. I went clipless on my geared bikes but unclippng at speed on the fix gear has been an occaissional nightmare to this day. I tried them on one fix gear that I rarely rode on hills. The few hills I went down were scary.

Falling over at a standstill? No big deal. I just relax, realize I made a fool of my self and greet the ground with all the skin and flesh I can. (Enough and nothing gets bruised. I get up, dust myself off if needed and ride on;.
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Old 08-12-21, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Broctoon View Post
Forum member 79pmooney swears the old slotted cleats and leather straps were and still are the bees knees. (Okay, maybe I shouldn't put words into his mouth. But I believe that's what he'll swear, based on many of his posts.) Of course, he also chooses to ride a fixed gear up and down long, steep Oregon hills. A guy who carries an extra fixed gear cog or two and the tool to change them on his hub, a century after the derailler was invented, is probably the only kind of guy who will shun clipless pedals (assuming some kind of retention is called for).

Don't get me wrong--I have some fixed gear and single speed bikes, and I ride them often, on flat-ish terrain. I also have some flat pedals with straps and plastic cages that I use with everyday shoes. I like them as a compromise between bike-specific shoes/clipless pedals and no foot retention. In more extreme riding situations, especially big elevation changes, I don't see why anyone would shun deraillers (or an IGH, or pinion gearbox... something that lets you shift on the fly just by moving a lever). And I fail to understand why anyone would still want 100 year old technology for foot retention, when modern clipless pedals are so good.

Luddites, amiright?
I see you pegged me before I got around to reading the rest of this thread.
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Old 08-12-21, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ShannonM View Post
If I had a bike that I only ever rode in cycling shoes, that bike would probably be clipless.
We can agree on that! I don't have a need to ride otherwise, so clipless it is.
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Old 08-12-21, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by 79pmooney View Post
I see you pegged me before I got around to reading the rest of this thread.
Yeah, buddy! Truly didnít mean any offense by it. I respect what you do on your bike; I just wouldnít do it myself.
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Old 08-12-21, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv View Post
We can agree on that! I don't have a need to ride otherwise, so clipless it is.
Yeah, if I only rode bikes for fitness & performance kinda stuff, I'd probably be right there with ya. Although I still might use the 7400s, because I liked the system so much, plus it confuses the hell outta the young'uns. And they're utterly useless in regular shoes, so they're kinda clipless-y in that way.

Actually, they're kinda clipless-y in general. With the straps loose, the retention of the cleat / pedal interface is about 80-90% of the retention you get from most clipless pedals... somewhat similar to my Speedplays, actually, where they feel a lot looser than they actually are. When you need to hammer, you tighten the straps and you're connected. The thing is, they're only great with the PD-64 cleats, which are about as common as toothbrushes for chickens. I have one pair, and one of the front wings is partly broken on one cleat. They still worked as normal, except that getting that cleat fully engaged to pedal was a bit fiddly. If I had access to a 3d printer, it'd cease to be an issue.


--Shannon
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Old 08-16-21, 01:54 PM
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Really though, specific shoes to ride a bike that turn into ice skates if you need to walk around in them, couple of hundred dollars for the shoes, pedals …….seriously? Surely cycling designers could come up with something better. Myself, any shoe will do that fits into the toe strap on my metal rat traps, easy to get out of, never had my feet unexpectedly disengage
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Old 08-16-21, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by sacr View Post
Really though, specific shoes to ride a bike that turn into ice skates if you need to walk around in them, couple of hundred dollars for the shoes, pedals ÖÖ.seriously?
And yet a large majority of cyclists who ride significant distance prefer clipless. Really.
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