Chain wax-er thread
09-20-21 | 12:59 PM
#26
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From: Seattle
09-20-21 | 02:02 PM
#27
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Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
The problem with [MENTION=406505]HTupolev[/MENTION]'s anecdote is that it is an anecdote. As HTupolev says about different conditions and situations ... no way to know what this one instance means ....
Not saying it didn't happen exactly as he describes, but i am saying we don't know Why.
I use wet wax on some bikes, melted wax on others, and oil on still others. I cannot say for certain that one is markedly better than another because I would need to spend weeks doing carefully controlled test rides, using the same bike, swapping chains, riding the same routes, and hopefully in similar climactic conditions .... but then my own fitness would be an uncontrollable variable ....
To really test friction under load, one would need to be indoors, on a machine, with force carefully controlled, so that friction could be measured precisely ... and tests would need to be 1000's of km long to measure the effects on wear .... and atmospheric/environmental conditions would need to be simulated, with some kind of calibrated grit-thrower and dust-blower and rain-sprayer ..... And No one Cares that much.
The upside is we actually ride instead of doing experiments in our garages. The downside is we cannot scientifically prove our ways are better.
The lucky few simply don't give a frog, or a duck, or whatever ..... like [MENTION=21724]cyccommute[/MENTION], he is riding all around the continent doing whatever .... and he hasn't messed with his chain-maintenance routine in 20 years.
if it works well enough for you, it works well enough for you.
Are we done arguing about chain lube? Can we argue about socks, or waving, now?
Not saying it didn't happen exactly as he describes, but i am saying we don't know Why.
I use wet wax on some bikes, melted wax on others, and oil on still others. I cannot say for certain that one is markedly better than another because I would need to spend weeks doing carefully controlled test rides, using the same bike, swapping chains, riding the same routes, and hopefully in similar climactic conditions .... but then my own fitness would be an uncontrollable variable ....
To really test friction under load, one would need to be indoors, on a machine, with force carefully controlled, so that friction could be measured precisely ... and tests would need to be 1000's of km long to measure the effects on wear .... and atmospheric/environmental conditions would need to be simulated, with some kind of calibrated grit-thrower and dust-blower and rain-sprayer ..... And No one Cares that much.
The upside is we actually ride instead of doing experiments in our garages. The downside is we cannot scientifically prove our ways are better.
The lucky few simply don't give a frog, or a duck, or whatever ..... like [MENTION=21724]cyccommute[/MENTION], he is riding all around the continent doing whatever .... and he hasn't messed with his chain-maintenance routine in 20 years.
if it works well enough for you, it works well enough for you.
Are we done arguing about chain lube? Can we argue about socks, or waving, now?
09-20-21 | 02:25 PM
#28
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To really test friction under load, one would need to be indoors, on a machine, with force carefully controlled, so that friction could be measured precisely ... and tests would need to be 1000's of km long to measure the effects on wear .... and atmospheric/environmental conditions would need to be simulated, with some kind of calibrated grit-thrower and dust-blower and rain-sprayer ..... And No one Cares that much.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...-drip-v1.1.pdf
Last edited by PeteHski; 09-20-21 at 02:31 PM.
09-20-21 | 02:45 PM
#29
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Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE
These guys do, so I just read their lube reviews whenever I need a new bottle. That's how I ended up using Silca SS drip-on wax this time around. I don't make chain lubing my life's work!
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au
I will have to check the price ... Silca is usually ridiculously overpriced. Nice thing about the paraffin and PTFE combo is that ten buck's worth last ten years.
Yeah ... . $46 for 8 ounces. For that money I would need to double chain life and be five mph quicker up the hills (so, twice as fast.)
Last edited by Maelochs; 09-20-21 at 02:48 PM.
09-20-21 | 02:56 PM
#30
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Their specific review below discusses the cost aspect.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...-drip-v1.1.pdf
After a full season on my road bike, I'm pretty sold on the results and lack of effort required. It's a step up from Squirt, which itself was pretty good. Now I've finished my last bottle of Squirt on my mtb, I'm switching that over to Silca too.
P.S. no idea if it's the same Aussies! They all sound the same to me too, LOL!
09-20-21 | 08:11 PM
#31
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From: Vegemite Island
Bikes: 2017 Surly Troll with XT Drive Train, 2017 Merida Big Nine XT Edition, 2016 Giant Toughroad SLR 2, 1995 Trek 830
09-20-21 | 10:38 PM
#32
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From: Napa Valley, CA
Bikes: Wife says I have too many :-)
Wax sucks, imho. I went through the whole chain-waxing spectrum of crockpots, ultrasonic cleaners, all the different wax recipes, as well as the ones that are premixed and ready to roll. After participating in dozens of discussion threads, and reading every possible chain-lube method, I've come to the conclusion that synthetic automotive transmission fluid (ATF) is the best choice for all conditions. My arguments follow:
1. ATF is reasonably clean. It does not seem to attract dust and dirt like regular oil. ATF has no tackiness to it, well, not much tackiness anyway - not as tacky as motor oil or bar and chain oil - so it doesn't get as filthy as other forms of lube.
2. It penetrates. ATF will work its way between the chain plates and pins a little easier.
3. Cleans up easier. I hit the chain with a little WD40, and give the chain a good wipe. Usually this does the trick.
4. Economical. A quart of oil - I use Mobil 1 synthetic - lasts a long time. I apply it with a refillable pump-type oil can, let it drip a little, wipe it off and ride away.
1. ATF is reasonably clean. It does not seem to attract dust and dirt like regular oil. ATF has no tackiness to it, well, not much tackiness anyway - not as tacky as motor oil or bar and chain oil - so it doesn't get as filthy as other forms of lube.
2. It penetrates. ATF will work its way between the chain plates and pins a little easier.
3. Cleans up easier. I hit the chain with a little WD40, and give the chain a good wipe. Usually this does the trick.
4. Economical. A quart of oil - I use Mobil 1 synthetic - lasts a long time. I apply it with a refillable pump-type oil can, let it drip a little, wipe it off and ride away.
I also became obsessed with waxing my chain. Had better results after I started using Mobil One synthetic oil. Squirt on with a fill bottle with a small pointed tip, wipe it
down and ride. Here's an article on this if you are interested. I keep a log of chain life and using synthetic oil has given 30% longer chain life.
https://biketestreviews.com/the-last...n-lubrication/
09-21-21 | 04:07 AM
#33
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I also became obsessed with waxing my chain. Had better results after I started using Mobil One synthetic oil. Squirt on with a fill bottle with a small pointed tip, wipe it
down and ride. Here's an article on this if you are interested. I keep a log of chain life and using synthetic oil has given 30% longer chain life.
https://biketestreviews.com/the-last...n-lubrication/
down and ride. Here's an article on this if you are interested. I keep a log of chain life and using synthetic oil has given 30% longer chain life.
https://biketestreviews.com/the-last...n-lubrication/
PS. If using engine oil, there's no need to be using anything as expensive as Mobil 1 for this application. Any cheapo engine oil will do the same job on a bicycle chain. Not that I would go down that route in any case.
Last edited by PeteHski; 09-21-21 at 04:11 AM.
09-21-21 | 05:46 AM
#34
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From: New Hampshire
Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton
The problem I've always had with wet lube is the ****** mess it quickly turns into with an open drivetrain. Unless you clean the whole drivetrain thoroughly after every single ride (which isn't happening for me) any initial lubrication advantage is totally lost after a handful of rides. Plus I don't have any excessive wear issues using wax based lubes anyway.
PS. If using engine oil, there's no need to be using anything as expensive as Mobil 1 for this application. Any cheapo engine oil will do the same job on a bicycle chain. Not that I would go down that route in any case.
PS. If using engine oil, there's no need to be using anything as expensive as Mobil 1 for this application. Any cheapo engine oil will do the same job on a bicycle chain. Not that I would go down that route in any case.
09-21-21 | 09:18 AM
#35
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
09-21-21 | 09:32 AM
#36
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Yes, you absolutely must wipe down your chain after using a wet lube, but in the end it is worth it when you add up time saved and the knowledge that your chain is lubricated, not just smeared with wax. Also, the whole idea behind choosing a synthetic oil is that they stink less. Organic-based oils got that rotten sulphury-oil smell. I've used cheapo motor oils, and even used motor oil, but nothing rings my bell like Mobil 1 ATF. YMMV.
I’m not sure how you “save time” when using home brew oil. You have to wipe down your chain constantly. I don’t. I don’t wipe down my chain ever. There is simply no need. I don’t have to constantly clean my bike’s frame, wheels, and components because there’s no boulders sticking to the chain. I can touch the chain without a hazmat suit. I can fix a flat without splattering everyone within a half mile with black guck.
I’ve done oil. I’ve done hot wax. I use solvent based wax lubricants because they are as easy to use as oil lubricant but are as clean as the more futzy hot wax methods.
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Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Dreamin' of Bemidji Down the Mississippi (in part)
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
09-21-21 | 09:42 AM
#37
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Yes, you absolutely must wipe down your chain after using a wet lube, but in the end it is worth it when you add up time saved and the knowledge that your chain is lubricated, not just smeared with wax. Also, the whole idea behind choosing a synthetic oil is that they stink less. Organic-based oils got that rotten sulphury-oil smell. I've used cheapo motor oils, and even used motor oil, but nothing rings my bell like Mobil 1 ATF. YMMV.
09-21-21 | 09:43 AM
#38
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09-23-21 | 07:27 AM
#39
well hello there
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From: Point Loma, CA
Bikes: Bill Holland (Road-Ti), Fuji Roubaix Pro (back-up), Bike Friday (folder), Co-Motion (tandem) & Trek 750 (hybrid)
I've tried literally dozens of different types of lubes and I've gone months without using any lubes at all, and I can honestly say that I notice no difference whatsoever in frequency of chain replacement.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
09-23-21 | 07:58 AM
#40
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Been using Squirt for a couple of seasons and a few tips:
Clean chain with soapy water and let completely dry.
Warm little Squirt bottle in hot water bath to reduce viscosity. Sometimes it is just way too thick doesn't appear to soak in. This is the key!
Apply to top and bottom of links and let sit for a while. This is when you have that post-ride beer.
Then wipe the outside of the chain as clean as possible. Clean, quiet, beautiful, long lasting chain!
Clean chain with soapy water and let completely dry.
Warm little Squirt bottle in hot water bath to reduce viscosity. Sometimes it is just way too thick doesn't appear to soak in. This is the key!
Apply to top and bottom of links and let sit for a while. This is when you have that post-ride beer.
Then wipe the outside of the chain as clean as possible. Clean, quiet, beautiful, long lasting chain!
09-23-21 | 01:10 PM
#41
Senior Member
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 11,620
Likes: 7,017
Been using Squirt for a couple of seasons and a few tips:
Clean chain with soapy water and let completely dry.
Warm little Squirt bottle in hot water bath to reduce viscosity. Sometimes it is just way too thick doesn't appear to soak in. This is the key!
Apply to top and bottom of links and let sit for a while. This is when you have that post-ride beer.
Then wipe the outside of the chain as clean as possible. Clean, quiet, beautiful, long lasting chain!
Clean chain with soapy water and let completely dry.
Warm little Squirt bottle in hot water bath to reduce viscosity. Sometimes it is just way too thick doesn't appear to soak in. This is the key!
Apply to top and bottom of links and let sit for a while. This is when you have that post-ride beer.
Then wipe the outside of the chain as clean as possible. Clean, quiet, beautiful, long lasting chain!
