If you change all the parts . . . is it still the same bike?
02-20-22, 04:17 PM
#76
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Originally Posted by subgrade
I'm also tempted to say that the frame is the crucial part. But then I thought about full suspension mountain bikes where the frame consists of several individual parts... is the front triangle or the rear one more important?
02-20-22, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Frkl
...At what point does it become a different bike?
That's it!
That's why all my bikes are Franken Bikes... Ha
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02-20-22, 04:48 PM
#78
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I have a Fuji Ace that I have changed many times on the few years I have owned it. It now has mustache bars, bar end shifters, triple crank set 48/38/28 and an 8 speed cassette 12-26. Shifters only work in friction mode, but do it very well. I tried a ten speed cassette and the shifting is nor problem. Ergo, I am now thinking of using a double crank set, 46-34 with a cassette something like 11-34. the Deore RD can handle that no problem.
So, being that the bike has been totally refinished and rebuilt completely different than original, it is not the same bike. It is the same frameset, with the materials used for that being the only thing left that is original. With that thought in mind, I ordered decals for the bike, FUJI OLD SCHOOL, with one going on each side of the top, seat, and down tubes.
So, being that the bike has been totally refinished and rebuilt completely different than original, it is not the same bike. It is the same frameset, with the materials used for that being the only thing left that is original. With that thought in mind, I ordered decals for the bike, FUJI OLD SCHOOL, with one going on each side of the top, seat, and down tubes.
02-20-22, 06:42 PM
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I had a 2006 Bianchi Volpe that had few original parts on it. That frame was replaced under warranty with a 2013 Volpe. The only parts that are from the 2006 bike are the bars and shift/brake levers. It is a different bike.
2006 Volpe
2013 Volpe frame
After looking at the pictures, I think those are the same fenders on both bikes
2006 Volpe
2013 Volpe frame
After looking at the pictures, I think those are the same fenders on both bikes
Last edited by Doug64; 02-20-22 at 06:55 PM.
02-20-22, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Frkl
There is a philosophical puzzle called the Ship of Theseus, named after an ancient Greek legend: Theseus goes sailing, and over time he and his crew replace every part of their ship, bit by bit. Is it the same ship?
I bought a beautiful lugged, made in Italy, Bianchi road bike new in 1995, and still have it and ride it today. But over time, I have replaced almost every part of it, such that today, only the seat post, headset, and frameset are original. Even though I did not replace the parts with the exact same things, to me, it is still the same bike.
Have you "Ship-of-Theseus'd" a bike? Do you consider it the same bike, or a different one? At what point does it become a different bike?
I bought a beautiful lugged, made in Italy, Bianchi road bike new in 1995, and still have it and ride it today. But over time, I have replaced almost every part of it, such that today, only the seat post, headset, and frameset are original. Even though I did not replace the parts with the exact same things, to me, it is still the same bike.
Have you "Ship-of-Theseus'd" a bike? Do you consider it the same bike, or a different one? At what point does it become a different bike?
It's the same bike.
02-20-22, 10:21 PM
#81
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As they say in classic car circles, a car (or bike) is only original once.
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02-21-22, 05:13 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by Ironfish653
Other than the old Cannondale Super V / Ultra V / Raven, which were really just aluminum and carbon versions of the same bike (same geometry) you really can't swap the swingarm between different f/s bikes. The linkage, geometry and hard points are designed together, it's not an assembly that's added on after the fact.
You can change the shock, but that would be like putting upgraded shocks on your VW and calling it an Audi.
You can change the shock, but that would be like putting upgraded shocks on your VW and calling it an Audi.
02-21-22, 09:48 AM
#83
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I have a Univega Gran Tourismo I bought in 1985. Like you, I've changed out many parts with their functional equivalent (maybe better quality) so it's not "all original". However, it's mission hasn't changed. It's still a road bike. Still has friction shifters on the downtube. It's the same bike on several levels.
One other thought. As I said, I bought it new in '85. I've logged a lot of miles and had a few adventures. Had my share of flats and crashes. Spent many hours servicing and cleaning it. If I ever found another '85 Gunmetal GT, it would look the same, maybe ride the same but it wouldn't be the same. And that is more than just the serial number.
One other thought. As I said, I bought it new in '85. I've logged a lot of miles and had a few adventures. Had my share of flats and crashes. Spent many hours servicing and cleaning it. If I ever found another '85 Gunmetal GT, it would look the same, maybe ride the same but it wouldn't be the same. And that is more than just the serial number.
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02-24-22, 04:15 PM
#84
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Originally Posted by Frkl
I have replaced almost every part of it, such that today, only the seat post, headset, and frameset are original.
I do not consider the Ship of Theseus applying to bikes, as it is the frame that is the primary identifier of a bike.
Image how weird a craigslist ad would be if the seller clamied it was a vintage Ritchey bike with a Chinese Schwinn frame...
02-25-22, 09:04 AM
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Just to be contrary...
My 1998 bike frame broke, and was replaced under warranty. (25 year warranty, remember those?) All the "original" parts, meaning the parts that were on the older frame when it broke, were moved over to the new frame. The consensus seems to be that the "bicycle-ness" of the original bike ended then.
However, the replacement frame was basically unchanged from the original (well, except for being in one piece and painted a different color). With the same parts as the other frame was carrying, and a few adjustments to saddle height and tilt, it felt the same and rode the same as two months earlier. The differences in ride quality between the "new" bike and my other bikes was/is the same as those differences for the "old" bike. So aside from some intangible mystical or philosophical bicycle-ness property, the "new" bike is the same as the "old" bike.
My 1998 bike frame broke, and was replaced under warranty. (25 year warranty, remember those?) All the "original" parts, meaning the parts that were on the older frame when it broke, were moved over to the new frame. The consensus seems to be that the "bicycle-ness" of the original bike ended then.
However, the replacement frame was basically unchanged from the original (well, except for being in one piece and painted a different color). With the same parts as the other frame was carrying, and a few adjustments to saddle height and tilt, it felt the same and rode the same as two months earlier. The differences in ride quality between the "new" bike and my other bikes was/is the same as those differences for the "old" bike. So aside from some intangible mystical or philosophical bicycle-ness property, the "new" bike is the same as the "old" bike.
02-26-22, 03:16 PM
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All it takes is tires. I've ridden bikes that I *LOVED* riding on certain tires, only to find upon wearing out those treads that my favorite tires were no longer available, or had changed. I found different tires, and suddenly it was like riding a whole new bike. (Ride whatever inflation pressure you prefer to argue about and leave me out of it.) 
02-26-22, 10:01 PM
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Some old Greek guy said something like "You can't ride the same bike twice" a long time ago IIRC.
