cheap tires vs expensive tires
#1
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 181
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times
in
31 Posts
cheap tires vs expensive tires
ok. i've seen lots of posts about tires making a difference in speed on here. i can't wrap my head around that. one pedal stroke gets you so far, so fast. as fast as you pedal. so why does a 50 dollar tire go faster than a 20 dollar tire, or am i way off base as to what tire speed even means, as regards to pedal stroke, resistance? i know size can make a difference, as can tread as to the amount of energy used to make a pedal stroke, but as for speed, someone smart explain to me how two of the same size tires, say 700x 25, with same tread , do different things, be it a 20 dollar dept store tire or a 50 dollar bike shop tire.
#2
Happy With My Bikes
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 2,195
Bikes: Hi-Ten bike boomers, a Trek Domane and some projects
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 884 Post(s)
Liked 2,324 Times
in
1,123 Posts
Rolling resistance is not equal among all tires.
__________________
"It is the unknown around the corner that turns my wheels." -- Heinz Stücke
"It is the unknown around the corner that turns my wheels." -- Heinz Stücke
Likes For Chuck M:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Hacienda Hgts
Posts: 2,122
Bikes: 1999 Schwinn Peloton Ultegra 10, Kestrel RT-1000 Ultegra, Trek Marlin 6 Deore 29'er
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 830 Post(s)
Liked 1,969 Times
in
949 Posts
The more boldface you use the more rolling resistance.
Smaller thin Arial 4 font has the least resistance.
Smaller thin Arial 4 font has the least resistance.
Last edited by CAT7RDR; 03-05-22 at 06:50 PM.
Likes For CAT7RDR:
#4
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
Likes For livedarklions:
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,076
Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times
in
972 Posts
A tire deforms as it rolls. Generally speaking, it takes less energy to deform a thinner tire, so it rolls more efficiently. Fancy secret sauce compounds can also make the tire deform with less energy.
I think making thin tires is more expensive because tighter tolerances and increased QA is required.
I think making thin tires is more expensive because tighter tolerances and increased QA is required.
Likes For tyrion:
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: GMT-5
Posts: 967
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked 422 Times
in
279 Posts
Get yourself a bike with a crank that can measure watts, and you'll prove how crappy $20 tires steal more watts from a human vs the better $50 tire.
It's fun to learn provable facts.
Likes For soyabean:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 5,970
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1841 Post(s)
Liked 1,713 Times
in
989 Posts
I can offer an anecdote. For what it is worth, a few years ago my friend and I started down a hill. We were both riding similar bikes, and identical wheels. However, I was riding on supple road tubeless tires and he was riding puncture resistant tires. He outweighed me by almost 20 pounds. We started the hill side by side at the same speed both sitting in about the same position on our bikes. One might think that the heavier rider would descend faster but I was about 50 meters ahead of him at the bottom of the 600 meter long hill.
Tires matter
Tires matter
#8
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,489 Times
in
1,286 Posts
The actual speed difference between various tires is so small that it makes no difference to most people who are not racing..
Likes For wolfchild:
Likes For jdogg111:
#10
Member
If you are interested in tire rolling resistance data I recommend the following site: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews
Likes For lostronin:
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: GMT-5
Posts: 967
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 564 Post(s)
Liked 422 Times
in
279 Posts
Have you tried casually communiting a few miles with Schwalbe Black Jack's 35 psi vs. Schwalbe Marathon's 80 psi?
Kindly please try this every day of the week for a whole season and give me your feedback.
Likes For soyabean:
#12
Tragically Ignorant
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: New England
Posts: 15,613
Bikes: Serotta Atlanta; 1994 Specialized Allez Pro; Giant OCR A1; SOMA Double Cross Disc; 2022 Allez Elite mit der SRAM
Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8186 Post(s)
Liked 9,099 Times
in
5,054 Posts
A tire deforms as it rolls. Generally speaking, it takes less energy to deform a thinner tire, so it rolls more efficiently. Fancy secret sauce compounds can also make the tire deform with less energy.
I think making thin tires is more expensive because tighter tolerances and increased QA is required.
I think making thin tires is more expensive because tighter tolerances and increased QA is required.
On the other hand, tires like Gatorskins are more expensive because they're puncture resistant and not especially low resistance.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,659
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4512 Post(s)
Liked 5,007 Times
in
3,095 Posts
There is actually quite a wide variation in rolling resistance between tyres of the same nominal size. Both compound and construction affect rolling resistance. Basically, lighter, more supple tyres are faster. The difference can be quite significant if speed is actually important to you. But there are also a lot of other factors to consider when choosing tyres i.e. braking and cornering grip (wet and dry), comfort, durability and puncture resistance. Personally I don't skimp on tyres as they are ultimately the only thing between you and the hard, unforgiving road. So I buy the best tyres for my needs (not necessarily the fastest rolling).
Likes For PeteHski:
#14
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,416
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked 673 Times
in
455 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
The actual speed difference between various tires is so small that it makes no difference to most people who are not racing..
were you just asking about speed? was not the Thread title ?
yes there is a difference in speed... and in many other properties the tires bring to riding the bike.
not all lower priced tires ride 'cheap', not all higher priced tires ride 'expensive'
the qualities required in a tire are up to the purchaser. But there is a difference; often substantial.
You, each of us, has the opportunity to determine that. Or one can ignore and live under 'assumption'.
Others here have given areas to look further, explore, if you truly wish to 'understand'. Your choice.
And, the Proof is in the riding
'Our own nose' may often get in the way of our own vision...
Ride On
Yuri
Originally Posted by wolfchild View Post
The actual speed difference between various tires is so small that it makes no difference to most people who are not racing..
yes there is a difference in speed... and in many other properties the tires bring to riding the bike.
not all lower priced tires ride 'cheap', not all higher priced tires ride 'expensive'
the qualities required in a tire are up to the purchaser. But there is a difference; often substantial.
You, each of us, has the opportunity to determine that. Or one can ignore and live under 'assumption'.
Others here have given areas to look further, explore, if you truly wish to 'understand'. Your choice.
And, the Proof is in the riding
'Our own nose' may often get in the way of our own vision...
Ride On
Yuri
#15
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,694
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11043 Post(s)
Liked 7,592 Times
in
4,234 Posts
Rolling resistance can be felt and it does impact speed. Whether thst matters to each of us is an individual decision and wolfchild doesn't speak for everyone, even though it is something he loves to do.
It should be easy to understand that two tires can roll at different speeds. Imagine a tire made of sticky soft foam and compare that to a traditional rubber rire. One will absorb more energy and require more effort to maintain the same speed as the other tire.
Likes For mstateglfr:
Likes For soyabean:
#17
Pennylane Splitter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 1,895
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1835 Post(s)
Liked 1,483 Times
in
1,015 Posts
All other things being equal, I'd say the rolling resistance of a tires would be you're main concern, and that would involve the hardness of the rubber compounds used to make the tire, the weight of the tire, and the rolling resistance when its on a wheel and properly inflated. Compare tires for those values and you should find a few that'll give you a little faster speed, then choose whatever one is at the price point you want.
Personaly I go for puncture resistance, ease of the tire going on and off the rim, and if it has some tread for riding through water and occasional stretches of rough road.
Personaly I go for puncture resistance, ease of the tire going on and off the rim, and if it has some tread for riding through water and occasional stretches of rough road.
#18
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,489 Times
in
1,286 Posts
You comparing off road tires to pavement tires...This thread is about cheap vs expensive tires and not about off road tires vs pavement tires.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 4,076
Bikes: Velo Orange Piolet
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2228 Post(s)
Liked 2,011 Times
in
972 Posts
Right. It cost money to engineer/manufacture the higher performing objectives, whether it's low rolling resistance or puncture resistance or a desirable compromise.
Likes For tyrion:
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,822
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1124 Post(s)
Liked 1,219 Times
in
775 Posts
Since you asked, I will answer: yes you are way off base as you have no idea what you are talking about to what has been proven and measureable.
Get yourself a bike with a crank that can measure watts, and you'll prove how crappy $20 tires steal more watts from a human vs the better $50 tire.
It's fun to learn provable facts.
Get yourself a bike with a crank that can measure watts, and you'll prove how crappy $20 tires steal more watts from a human vs the better $50 tire.
It's fun to learn provable facts.
Last edited by Camilo; 03-05-22 at 06:22 PM.
Likes For Camilo:
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Mich
Posts: 7,495
Bikes: RSO E-tire dropper fixie brifter
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 3,062 Times
in
1,957 Posts
a cheap tire might not make much of a difference for speed, however, I'd expect a good tire to deliver a more pleasant experience in regards to comfort, puncture resistance, & stability. ymmv.
__________________
-Oh Hey!
-Oh Hey!
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,836
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1954 Post(s)
Liked 2,199 Times
in
1,337 Posts
If you are interested in tire rolling resistance data I recommend the following site: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...d-bike-reviews
It doesn’t take a mental giant to see watts ranging from 10 to 20 to realize that it takes more work. The test is done at 18mph, which will guarantee you last place when racing, but brisk on a MUP. Granted if someone is riding in the single digits expending little effort, it may not matter; but you are using speed as a comparison.
No one can give you a quantifiable response to your mythical $20 and $50 tires. You need actual tires to compare.
The reality is most people weigh the factors and pick a tire that fits their needs. Typically sacrificing a bit of rolling resistance for puncture resistance, or vice versa, at a particular price point.
John
Likes For 70sSanO:
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,822
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1124 Post(s)
Liked 1,219 Times
in
775 Posts
But, it could be placebo, but I think the better tires just feel better riding. When I changed from $7 cheap house brand tires from one of the big US mail order companies to higher end Michelin Pro and Continental GP I thought the ride felt different. Not exactly softer, but subtly more compliant and seemed to just feel better cornering. The tires were definitely more pliant/flexible unmounted. Again, the ride characteristics could be placebo.
#24
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,846
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1174 Post(s)
Liked 935 Times
in
618 Posts
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.
FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Last edited by Homebrew01; 03-05-22 at 07:03 PM.
Likes For Homebrew01:
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,442
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18495 Post(s)
Liked 15,804 Times
in
7,422 Posts
Yep. The tires I use for touring aren’t the best when it comes to rolling resistance, but they come in a size that is suitable for the varying surfaces I ride and have very good puncture resistance. Got 3 flats during a 6,000 mile trip. One of those was caused by a giant, sharp screw that would likely have penetrated any tire. Haven’t flatted on tour since 2017.